Nurburgring & Insurance
Discussion
What you mean is, that you don't want it to be a racetrack, so you'll keep harping on about it until you think you've bored everyone into submission.
It is a racetrack 24/7, it is known as a racetrack, the owners and leaseholders describe it as a racetrack, so it's a racetrack.
The TT course is different, it is a prepared race course for 14 days a year and the roads used are closed to the general public during this time. On "Mad Suday" the roads are open, however they are very heavily policed and speed limits are strictly enforced. The only areas where you can drive at speed are always there, as the IOM does not have a national speed limit.
I have no idea about Monaco, or how that works.
It is a racetrack 24/7, it is known as a racetrack, the owners and leaseholders describe it as a racetrack, so it's a racetrack.
The TT course is different, it is a prepared race course for 14 days a year and the roads used are closed to the general public during this time. On "Mad Suday" the roads are open, however they are very heavily policed and speed limits are strictly enforced. The only areas where you can drive at speed are always there, as the IOM does not have a national speed limit.
I have no idea about Monaco, or how that works.
I have just read the article in www.trackdriver.com - you can find it under articles, issue 3 and read it without subscribing (worked for me anyway).
There is some useful information provided, but as usual it does not say anything definitive about availability of 3rd party cover for tourist laps.
There is some useful information provided, but as usual it does not say anything definitive about availability of 3rd party cover for tourist laps.
In the said article I wrote; “Third party cover however isn't available” - pretty definitive I’d say…
Also said on page 8 of this thread: ”those not signed-up to our free subscription by November 15 can thereafter access it when we upload the feature to our website in the new year; www.trackdriver.com.”, pretty clear cut as well, albeit we’re a tad early ;-)
John
Also said on page 8 of this thread: ”those not signed-up to our free subscription by November 15 can thereafter access it when we upload the feature to our website in the new year; www.trackdriver.com.”, pretty clear cut as well, albeit we’re a tad early ;-)
John
JH It's nice to see your conclusions are the same as mine. People should go and drive it. Just not in their own car of TF days unless they have gold plated and checked 3rd party cover. The risks are just too big compared to the cost of a rental & extra insurance payment or a "proper trackday".
JH said:
In the said article I wrote; “Third party cover however isn't available” - pretty definitive I’d say…
third party insurance isn't available from a trackday insurance provider. agree.third party insurance is available from specialist brokers. i've had a copper bottomed guarantee from my broker every time i've done any TF. i agree with advice not to go in your own car without such a guarantee.
is there any reason the article mentions the GP circuit but fails to mention that its often open for TF driving? the same insurance considerations apply there.
Edited by agtlaw on Saturday 11th December 09:53
JH said:
In the said article I wrote; “Third party cover however isn't available” - pretty definitive I’d say…
Yes, but in same article it also said "The best advice is to check with your broker. Cover is available, but the better the relationship with the insurance providers the more likely they will be able to accommodate your needs."And your full quote referring to your interviewing MIS was "Third party cover however isn't available, for that you have to rely on your road car policy...."
So maybe you were saying 3rd party cover is avaiable, sort of, depending on if you buy your broker a birthday present, or something...... (ie not definitive)
Andrew, I couldn’t find a broker/underwriter who would offer third party cover for TF days, additionally one of the many specialist insurance companies I spoke to (I only quoted MIS being they are an advertiser) said: “if you find anybody offering third party cover, please let me know as we are turning away a lot of business.”
So it appears from what you say that ‘old school’ TF attendees who’ve built a relationship with their broker over the years, retain, for the time being, copper bottomed guarantees. However those very same brokers are not openly offering the same to new clients, or even to existing clients who aren’t historically ‘Ring regulars.
Unless I’m mistaken - in which case would you be so kind to post your brokers contact details on this thread so that everybody here can get cover for all third party TF risks please?
Jwoffshore - if you haven’t already got, as in Andrew’ case, an existing agreement with a broker then third party cover remains generally unobtainable.
As Jim pointed out in the feature the media has a lot to answer for - but what he didn’t explain was why us media types don’t need to worry about third party liability and therefore continue to irresponsibly promote the ‘Ring...for when we ‘test’ a vehicle there, whether it be a TF day or not, we do so comfortable in the knowledge a multi million pound business PLI policy is covering our backsides.
John
So it appears from what you say that ‘old school’ TF attendees who’ve built a relationship with their broker over the years, retain, for the time being, copper bottomed guarantees. However those very same brokers are not openly offering the same to new clients, or even to existing clients who aren’t historically ‘Ring regulars.
Unless I’m mistaken - in which case would you be so kind to post your brokers contact details on this thread so that everybody here can get cover for all third party TF risks please?
Jwoffshore - if you haven’t already got, as in Andrew’ case, an existing agreement with a broker then third party cover remains generally unobtainable.
As Jim pointed out in the feature the media has a lot to answer for - but what he didn’t explain was why us media types don’t need to worry about third party liability and therefore continue to irresponsibly promote the ‘Ring...for when we ‘test’ a vehicle there, whether it be a TF day or not, we do so comfortable in the knowledge a multi million pound business PLI policy is covering our backsides.
John
JH, thanks for the clarification, much appreciated. I wasn't meaning to have a go at your article, if it did come across that way.
I have done very many TF laps over the years but it has all been on 2 wheels. In that case, the 3rd party risk has never worried me much because I feel the amount of 3rd party damage I can inflct with my bike is quite limited. As a biker one is more likely to be the 3rd party victim, as per the occasion some idiot in an M3 drove into me at Adenauer Forest. He was also from UK and damage to me and bike was mild, so I didn't bother with the hassle of persuing a claim.
Now I am considering resuming TF but in a car, so now the 3rd party issue is of much greater concern. Therefore I also consider the track day option, but it's not much good if you shell out £££ only to find it pouring with rain on your chosen date. Maybe I should become a journalist!!
I have done very many TF laps over the years but it has all been on 2 wheels. In that case, the 3rd party risk has never worried me much because I feel the amount of 3rd party damage I can inflct with my bike is quite limited. As a biker one is more likely to be the 3rd party victim, as per the occasion some idiot in an M3 drove into me at Adenauer Forest. He was also from UK and damage to me and bike was mild, so I didn't bother with the hassle of persuing a claim.
Now I am considering resuming TF but in a car, so now the 3rd party issue is of much greater concern. Therefore I also consider the track day option, but it's not much good if you shell out £££ only to find it pouring with rain on your chosen date. Maybe I should become a journalist!!
jwoffshore said:
I have done very many TF laps over the years but it has all been on 2 wheels. In that case, the 3rd party risk has never worried me much because I feel the amount of 3rd party damage I can inflct with my bike is quite limited. As a biker one is more likely to be the 3rd party victim, as per the occasion some idiot in an M3 drove into me at Adenauer Forest. He was also from UK and damage to me and bike was mild, so I didn't bother with the hassle of persuing a claim.
That is naive in the extreme. Bikes can do a hell of a lot of damage and often do. The urban myth about always being on the receiving end is just that too.I tend to have experience of these things, as I run the claims side of things for a major insurer, was very senior in a bike insurance broker and ride / drive on track a lot myself.
If you ride the Ring without cover, you're taking just as big a risk on the personal payout as you do with a car.
Thanks for the advice R1. In my "extreme naivety" I've been risking it for almost 20 years! My personal experience specific to Nurburgring is contrary to yours however, but there you go. On one of my early trips I did have to pay out for a section of armco, which would not have seen light of day above the excess on any insurance. Since properly learning my way around the Ring, my biggest worries now on a bike are dropped fluids from other vehicles and other drivers misbehaving. The vast majority of Brits I meet at the Ring never seem to think of the insurance issue, or just hope it won't happen to them.
k has that posted here? These phones are s
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