Nurburgring & Insurance

[V8mate]

tertius said:

Diablos-666 said:

I must admit I'm bloody confused???

So is it better to go on a public day or when it's open to just tours?

Have I got this right...

On a public day it's not classed as a race track

On a tour day it is classed as a track?

If it's classed as a track then your not liable for 3rd party costs? So if someone crashes into me would I be covered by either my insurance or their insurance?

It's a mine field this

My understanding is this:

On a public day (touristenfahrten or TF) it is open to the public, is classed as a public road and normal road laws apply - road legal vehicles only, mixture of cars/bikes/vans/etc., keep right, overtake on the left only, obey the speed limits (where they exist), minimum of third party insurance required

On a track day it is closed to the public and road traffic laws do not apply. The actual requirements of the day will vary according to the organiser - e.g. many German track day organisers do require third party insurance, whereas UK organisers usually do not.

Assuming it is a track day organised to UK norms, then if someone crashes into you, then you can expect only to be covered if you have track day cover for your car.

I'm assuming by "tour day" you mean "track day"?

But if you damage the track infrastructure the bill will end up with you whichever which way?

[tertius]

V8mate said:

tertius said:

My understanding is this:

On a public day (touristenfahrten or TF) it is open to the public, is classed as a public road and normal road laws apply - road legal vehicles only, mixture of cars/bikes/vans/etc., keep right, overtake on the left only, obey the speed limits (where they exist), minimum of third party insurance required

On a track day it is closed to the public and road traffic laws do not apply. The actual requirements of the day will vary according to the organiser - e.g. many German track day organisers do require third party insurance, whereas UK organisers usually do not.

Assuming it is a track day organised to UK norms, then if someone crashes into you, then you can expect only to be covered if you have track day cover for your car.

I'm assuming by "tour day" you mean "track day"?

But if you damage the track infrastructure the bill will end up with you whichever which way?

Well, on a public day your third party insurance ought to cover track damage/closure/cleanup costs.

[Diablos-666]

So what is the better option, going on a public day or when the track is open only to tour days (assume that classes it as a track), with regards to insurance.

If you do need to claim on the additional track day insurance will it affect your normal insurance premiums, do you have to let them know you made a claim, when you come to renew?

[tertius]

Diablos-666 said:

So what is the better option, going on a public day or when the track is open only to tour days (assume that classes it as a track), with regards to insurance.

If you do need to claim on the additional track day insurance will it affect your normal insurance premiums, do you have to let them know you made a claim, when you come to renew?

I'm still not quite clear what you mean by tour days, but TF and track days are quite different in my experience.

A track day is "just" like a UK track day, in that the circuit is open only to the track day punters, you drive as much or as little as you want, it will be marshalled and you won't have to deal with bikes or anything but cars. Though some of the cars are likely to be race cars and ballistically quick.

Usually the track is much much emptier and there are likely to be fewer accidents and consequential closures.

However, you are committing up front to that particular day and probably paying £4-500 for the privilege.

Its also easier to get tuition on track days, which if its your first time there is well worth doing.

Conversely on a TF day, you pay per lap, so the up front commitment is less, if it rains you can just sit it out and not feel you are losing out.

Track is usually much busier, on weekends there are lots of accidents and closures, and lost of track time is usually lost because of that. Marshalls posts are not manned on TF days, so responses to accidents is less immediate.

I think there is much more atmosphere on TF day but I couldn't say one was better than the other.

[Fireblade69]

I had a thought earlier. If the insurance company does not specifically exclude it and they write to tell you that it will be excluded even though they can't say where in the policy it is then aren't they legally obliged to give you notification of the change of terms & conditions before they apply? (Can some suitable lawyer type confirm that) And by doing so, they are basically saying, "Yes we going to exclude this specifically because we technically have not as yet."

If there is a period of time that they are required to give in order to change of terms and conditions then that period from notification to the change should mean that you are covered during that time.

Or am I talking a load of cock?

[Diablos-666]

Instead of trying to get one over on the insurance company isnt it just better to get specialized track day insurance so your sure your covered.

I know it will cost more money but i'd rather be sure than take the risk and fight the insurance company to cough up!

[Munter]

Diablos-666 said:

Instead of trying to get one over on the insurance company isnt it just better to get specialized track day insurance so your sure your covered.

I know it will cost more money but i'd rather be sure than take the risk and fight the insurance company to cough up!

Buy as much track day insurance as you like. But why it'd be any use to you on a TF day where the 'ring is a road I've no idea.

TF day = Road insurance (without nurburgring exclusion)
Track day = Track day insurance

Your road insurance will not cover you on a track day. And your track insurance will not cover you on a tourist day.

[Diablos-666]

Well then it's probably better if you go when it's a track day isnt it? Less risk that way?

Obviously you will pay more but better to be safe than Bankrupt?

[edh]

Diablos-666 said:

Well then it's probably better if you go when it's a track day isnt it? Less risk that way?

Obviously you will pay more but better to be safe than Bankrupt?

- or it's better to go on a TF day with proper insurance

[mmm-five]

Munter said:

Your road insurance will not cover you on a track day. And your track insurance will not cover you on a tourist day.

Moris do a specific policy that covers you (edited to add) first party only on Touristefahrten. When you go to their 'track day' insurance page and select Nürburgring, it will ask you who it's organised through and you have to select 'Touristenfahrten or Public Day'. I've double-checked with them regarding this and it does what it says on the tin.

My concern on Touristenfahrten is the 3rd party liabilities if I happen to drop some oil/fluid from my car that was perfect when it left the car park.

A proper track day is the best option, but at £450 for the day, and they're not as regular as public days so take a fair bit more planning and there's usually no refund if you have to pull out at the last minute.

Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 23 June 14:05

[edh]

mmm-five said:

Munter said:

Your road insurance will not cover you on a track day. And your track insurance will not cover you on a tourist day.

Moris do a specific policy covers you on Touristefahrten. When you go to their 'track day' insurance page and select Nürburgring, it will ask you who it's organised through and you have to select 'Touristenfahrten or Public Day'. I've double-checked with them regarding this and it does what it says on the tin.

My concern on Touristenfahrten is the 3rd party liabilities if I happen to drop some oil/fluid from my car that was perfect when it left the car park.

A proper track day is the best option, but at £450 for the day, and they're not as regular as public days so take a fair bit more planning and there's usually no refund if you have to pull out at the last minute.

Are you saying their insurance will include third party cover on TF days?

[tertius]

edh said:

mmm-five said:

Munter said:

Your road insurance will not cover you on a track day. And your track insurance will not cover you on a tourist day.

Moris do a specific policy covers you on Touristefahrten. When you go to their 'track day' insurance page and select Nürburgring, it will ask you who it's organised through and you have to select 'Touristenfahrten or Public Day'. I've double-checked with them regarding this and it does what it says on the tin.

My concern on Touristenfahrten is the 3rd party liabilities if I happen to drop some oil/fluid from my car that was perfect when it left the car park.

A proper track day is the best option, but at £450 for the day, and they're not as regular as public days so take a fair bit more planning and there's usually no refund if you have to pull out at the last minute.

Are you saying their insurance will include third party cover on TF days?

No, its first party only. And, therefore, not a complete solution if your road policy excludes the Nordschleife.

[edh]

OK - so not much use to anyone on TF days really. I know most of the accidents are single cars / armco, but just like a UK trackday I can live with the cost of damaging my own car and don't need to insure that.

[Diablos-666]

This insurance lark is a pain the arse!

I want to go around the Nurburgring but also want to be totally insured inc. my car, 3rd party and any other costs be it damage to track / track closures / etc etc etc...

Is this possible?

I dont want to think im insured and then find out its only my car that was insured and i'd have to cop the cost for damage to someone's car.

If im honest its actually putting me off going there now. Might just do a euro road trip without the nurburgring.

[fergus]

tertius said:

edh said:

mmm-five said:

Munter said:

Your road insurance will not cover you on a track day. And your track insurance will not cover you on a tourist day.

Moris do a specific policy covers you on Touristefahrten. When you go to their 'track day' insurance page and select Nürburgring, it will ask you who it's organised through and you have to select 'Touristenfahrten or Public Day'. I've double-checked with them regarding this and it does what it says on the tin.

My concern on Touristenfahrten is the 3rd party liabilities if I happen to drop some oil/fluid from my car that was perfect when it left the car park.

A proper track day is the best option, but at £450 for the day, and they're not as regular as public days so take a fair bit more planning and there's usually no refund if you have to pull out at the last minute.

Are you saying their insurance will include third party cover on TF days?

No, its first party only. And, therefore, not a complete solution if your road policy excludes the Nordschleife.

But, assuming you're doing a TRACK day, (not TF), then this effectively is a complete solution, as it means you are likely to be able to walk away from a crash (having insured for your car through Morris), not liable to other 3rd parties (other than the circuit for damage to Armco, etc) as it a trackday....

[tertius]

fergus said:

tertius said:

edh said:

mmm-five said:

Munter said:

Your road insurance will not cover you on a track day. And your track insurance will not cover you on a tourist day.

Moris do a specific policy covers you on Touristefahrten. When you go to their 'track day' insurance page and select Nürburgring, it will ask you who it's organised through and you have to select 'Touristenfahrten or Public Day'. I've double-checked with them regarding this and it does what it says on the tin.

My concern on Touristenfahrten is the 3rd party liabilities if I happen to drop some oil/fluid from my car that was perfect when it left the car park.

A proper track day is the best option, but at £450 for the day, and they're not as regular as public days so take a fair bit more planning and there's usually no refund if you have to pull out at the last minute.

Are you saying their insurance will include third party cover on TF days?

No, its first party only. And, therefore, not a complete solution if your road policy excludes the Nordschleife.

But, assuming you're doing a TRACK day, (not TF), then this effectively is a complete solution, as it means you are likely to be able to walk away from a crash (having insured for your car through Morris), not liable to other 3rd parties (other than the circuit for damage to Armco, etc) as it a trackday....

As long as it is a track day organised to UK track day standards with no requirement for third party cover, then yes I agree. Some European (esp. German) organisers require 3rd party cover even for track days.

However, my answer was in response to a specific question about TF ...

[fergus]

tertius said:

As long as it is a track day organised to UK track day standards with no requirement for third party cover, then yes I agree. Some European (esp. German) organisers require 3rd party cover even for track days.

However, my answer was in response to a specific question about TF ...

Agreed, and noted

[edh]

Diablos-666 said:

This insurance lark is a pain the arse!

I want to go around the Nurburgring but also want to be totally insured inc. my car, 3rd party and any other costs be it damage to track / track closures / etc etc etc...

Is this possible?

I dont want to think im insured and then find out its only my car that was insured and i'd have to cop the cost for damage to someone's car.

If im honest its actually putting me off going there now. Might just do a euro road trip without the nurburgring.

I Thought Mannings were including TF cover for Porsche and TVR - so if you're taking the 350 it's time to switch your insurance to them...

Your username reminded me of this - seen on my last 'ring trip in May

[Soovy]

Fireblade69 said:

I guess I'm trying to avoid asking a direct question on the basis that the answer will most likely, be "No, you can't drive on it at all".

Of course it will.

You know. I know it. They know it.


You won't be insured. You won't. Unless they give it to you IN WRITING that YOU ARE COVERED BY INSURANCE WHEN TAKING PART IN TOURISTFAHRTEN DAYS AT THE NURGBURGRING".

Which clearly they won't.

[fergus]

Soovy said:

Fireblade69 said:

I guess I'm trying to avoid asking a direct question on the basis that the answer will most likely, be "No, you can't drive on it at all".

Of course it will.

You know. I know it. They know it.


You won't be insured. You won't. Unless they give it to you IN WRITING that YOU ARE COVERED BY INSURANCE WHEN TAKING PART IN TOURISTFAHRTEN DAYS AT THE NURGBURGRING".

Which clearly they won't.

Well at least that's cleared that up then...