Employer Problem
Discussion
Hi all,
I was hoping someone with knowledge of employment law may be able to help me and my fiancee. Currently my fiancee is working as a shop assistant for a large chain. They close at 10pm 6 days a week.
The problem is the shop shuts at 10pm and once all of the cashing/locking up is complete its 10.15-10.20. Employees are only paid until 10pm but expected to stay later to lock up of which is time is unpaid.
My question is can they do this legally and if my fiancee was just to leave at 10pm what would happen? I mean she is not being paid so why should she stay?
Cheers
Fergie87
I was hoping someone with knowledge of employment law may be able to help me and my fiancee. Currently my fiancee is working as a shop assistant for a large chain. They close at 10pm 6 days a week.
The problem is the shop shuts at 10pm and once all of the cashing/locking up is complete its 10.15-10.20. Employees are only paid until 10pm but expected to stay later to lock up of which is time is unpaid.
My question is can they do this legally and if my fiancee was just to leave at 10pm what would happen? I mean she is not being paid so why should she stay?
Cheers
Fergie87
Thanks for the speedy reply 
She is contracted for 16 hours a week, which she covers by set hours each week and is paid hourly. Tbh i don't know much more about her contract as I haven't actually seen it. However when she does an extra hour t or so to cover for someone she is paid.
What should I be looking for in the contract?
Thanks
She is contracted for 16 hours a week, which she covers by set hours each week and is paid hourly. Tbh i don't know much more about her contract as I haven't actually seen it. However when she does an extra hour t or so to cover for someone she is paid.
What should I be looking for in the contract?
Thanks
Having worked in retail for many years, off licence closing at 10pm - it's the norm.
The trick is to get the cashing up done as quickly as possible - simultaneously closing down the computerised tills. With a bit of practice you should be able to be out within 5 minutes of closing.
Most of the 'closing up' work should be done between 2130 and 2145, ie bringing blackboards in, lowering shutters, emptying cash mashine, reducing service to one till and cashing the others up.
As an extra tip I used to have coin bags made up with odds ie £10 bag of 20ps would have a mix of 20ps and £1 coins but would add up to £10 by 2155. A quick cash up would have all relevent money bags with just a few coins in the till...and if it was slow trade, would have already written the till contents down on a piece of paper to even quicken that job.
Tills are usually recounted in the morning before start of trade especially if a different person is taking over responsibility. The employers will expect you to be there to open up on time and be able to trade straight away, even though they might only pay you from opening time. That's retail
The skill is to lessen the time needed to open/close the store
The trick is to get the cashing up done as quickly as possible - simultaneously closing down the computerised tills. With a bit of practice you should be able to be out within 5 minutes of closing.
Most of the 'closing up' work should be done between 2130 and 2145, ie bringing blackboards in, lowering shutters, emptying cash mashine, reducing service to one till and cashing the others up.
As an extra tip I used to have coin bags made up with odds ie £10 bag of 20ps would have a mix of 20ps and £1 coins but would add up to £10 by 2155. A quick cash up would have all relevent money bags with just a few coins in the till...and if it was slow trade, would have already written the till contents down on a piece of paper to even quicken that job.
Tills are usually recounted in the morning before start of trade especially if a different person is taking over responsibility. The employers will expect you to be there to open up on time and be able to trade straight away, even though they might only pay you from opening time. That's retail
The skill is to lessen the time needed to open/close the store
Isn't it the same where ever you work?
Last year I put in an extra 250 hours over the course of a year & didn't get paid for it. I wasn't on salary, I am hourly paid & did it to make my working day go a bit easier. I think in the long run, it looks good if you are willing to put in extra hours.
Last year I put in an extra 250 hours over the course of a year & didn't get paid for it. I wasn't on salary, I am hourly paid & did it to make my working day go a bit easier. I think in the long run, it looks good if you are willing to put in extra hours.
My own experience in the 90's it just seemed to be the norm, everyone grumbled but nothing got done to change it.
Depends, there may be an explicit condition around supporting store opening/closing, though it is hard to see how enforcable that would be if she is paid per hour, and it is outside her nominated hours. Though, to be honest, even if there is, it is a little exploitative if it's taking that long.
Interesting point is if she isn't paid for that time, yet she is performing duties of the company, what would happen in the event of an accident/injury?
Might be worth a chat to ACAS via their helpline number - they can be very helpful?
Depends, there may be an explicit condition around supporting store opening/closing, though it is hard to see how enforcable that would be if she is paid per hour, and it is outside her nominated hours. Though, to be honest, even if there is, it is a little exploitative if it's taking that long.
Interesting point is if she isn't paid for that time, yet she is performing duties of the company, what would happen in the event of an accident/injury?
Might be worth a chat to ACAS via their helpline number - they can be very helpful?
Yep- if they don't want to pay the staff for an extra 20 mins, then they should expect staff to start closing tasks early (not an issue as they won't be closing in peak time one would hope!). I ran a convenience store for a while and the evening routine started 1 hour before closing - sweep and mop at the last moment, cash up, lotto and papers returned for the next day.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I said it was down to cashing up slowly, but after being there at 10pm and watched as people are having to be ushered out of the door I would disagree. Its not a case of poor managment, it is just always busy and they are not allowed to cash up before 10pm as the doors have to be locked and shop empty by company policy (or so she was told).
Any other views would be greatly appreciated although I think ACAS may be the way forward with this.
I said it was down to cashing up slowly, but after being there at 10pm and watched as people are having to be ushered out of the door I would disagree. Its not a case of poor managment, it is just always busy and they are not allowed to cash up before 10pm as the doors have to be locked and shop empty by company policy (or so she was told).
Any other views would be greatly appreciated although I think ACAS may be the way forward with this.
Either way, I would just call ACAS for advice; they aren't arbitrating in this case.
Id it's non-unionised (I don't know of any high street chain that recognises unions in negotiations) then might be worth her asking if there is an employee forum / employee rep - many big chains have them as a way of engaging management with workers at the coal face?
Id it's non-unionised (I don't know of any high street chain that recognises unions in negotiations) then might be worth her asking if there is an employee forum / employee rep - many big chains have them as a way of engaging management with workers at the coal face?
The trick to get rid of the last minuters is to have someone on the door 5 mins before closing, tell any customers trying to come in they've got 4/3/2 minutes left then lock the door, only letting existing customers out - refusing entry to ones that want to come in, with a simple 'we're closed'.
They'll soon learn not to leave it till the last minute
They'll soon learn not to leave it till the last minute
Did you stay for free for 2 hours?!
I've heard terrible things about McDonalds. A friend used to work there when we were pimply teenagers and he would frequently be asked to clock off if it was quiet but be asked to wait in the staff room in case they needed him later.
I appreciate when you're younger it isn't easy to say p
s off, but I certainly wouldn't put up with that kind of treatment.
When I ran a pub I didn't mind putting a few extra hours in after closing time, however
I've heard terrible things about McDonalds. A friend used to work there when we were pimply teenagers and he would frequently be asked to clock off if it was quiet but be asked to wait in the staff room in case they needed him later.
I appreciate when you're younger it isn't easy to say p
s off, but I certainly wouldn't put up with that kind of treatment.When I ran a pub I didn't mind putting a few extra hours in after closing time, however
Yes I did but I left after about 6 weeks or so for various reasons.
The shifts were hard. Very hard. Even after about 6 hour shifts you were exhausted (i.e cooking and scooping chips all day).
The 2 hours thing was not only a pisstake because of the money but also because when I took the job I expected to finish at one specific time but in the end I was always finishing at different times way later than expected.
The shifts were hard. Very hard. Even after about 6 hour shifts you were exhausted (i.e cooking and scooping chips all day).
The 2 hours thing was not only a pisstake because of the money but also because when I took the job I expected to finish at one specific time but in the end I was always finishing at different times way later than expected.
ChairsWithHairs said:
Mad how do these businesses get honest staff that are happy to be flexible if need be like this, cover holiday etc or stay later when need be?
Look around most high street (non premium) retail stores + Macdonalds / Comet, etc.These days, it tends to be a mix of young (<21 so lower tariffs of min wage), students (flexible and cheap) and people balancing several jobs; all demographics that are relatively easy to exploit contractually with minimum protection (non unionised, low protection)
Outside of the premium chains the high street isn't a place for a long term career, sadly.
Mojooo said:
I worked at both McDonalds and Comet and at closing up time they expected you to stay for free.
At McDonalds it could sometime take up to 2 hours after closing to get out. At Comet it was more like 3-40mins IIRC.
Some of the stories I have heard about one of those companies beggers belief. Last year one of our LM party had to cancel 2 days before leaving as a member of staff had been found in breach of the rules and they cancelled all leave without notice for the other staff as they had suspended the scrote. Not only did mate lose his holiday and £200 worth of tickets and so on but also his brother had to drop out as they were going together and we lost out on our kit van which was due to take all our camping stuff, beer tent and so on down. The company concerned refused to refund even his lost costs, let alone the £100’s extra it cost everyone else in fuel to retrieve their stuff from him before we left! Suffice to say that’s one chain I will not be buying electrical goods from again unless Hell has frozen over.At McDonalds it could sometime take up to 2 hours after closing to get out. At Comet it was more like 3-40mins IIRC.
I spoke to both ACAS and the head office when working at a popular retail shop who insisted we arrived 15 minutes before each shift and stayed for at least 20 mins after we were meant to be finished, sometimes well over an hour longer. In my case the head office themselves confirmed it isn't company policy and ACAS said they cannot keep you against your will.
In turned nasty when I bought it up with my store manager, who denied it not being company policy and insisted they could keep us for 20 mins after shift unpaid.
Their attitude to staff was awful, I was stressed to the hilt because of them so I left. My advice would be to raise the grievance, and if no action taken start looking for something new.
In turned nasty when I bought it up with my store manager, who denied it not being company policy and insisted they could keep us for 20 mins after shift unpaid.
Their attitude to staff was awful, I was stressed to the hilt because of them so I left. My advice would be to raise the grievance, and if no action taken start looking for something new.
Fergie87 said:
Hi all,
I was hoping someone with knowledge of employment law may be able to help me and my fiancee. Currently my fiancee is working as a shop assistant for a large chain. They close at 10pm 6 days a week.
The problem is the shop shuts at 10pm and once all of the cashing/locking up is complete its 10.15-10.20. Employees are only paid until 10pm but expected to stay later to lock up of which is time is unpaid.
My question is can they do this legally and if my fiancee was just to leave at 10pm what would happen? I mean she is not being paid so why should she stay?
Cheers
Fergie87
Okay i don´t live in the UK, but I highly doubt this is legal regardless of how she gets paid etc. She gets paid to 10 pm. Anything later than that is overtime which you should get some payment for. Is she in a union?I was hoping someone with knowledge of employment law may be able to help me and my fiancee. Currently my fiancee is working as a shop assistant for a large chain. They close at 10pm 6 days a week.
The problem is the shop shuts at 10pm and once all of the cashing/locking up is complete its 10.15-10.20. Employees are only paid until 10pm but expected to stay later to lock up of which is time is unpaid.
My question is can they do this legally and if my fiancee was just to leave at 10pm what would happen? I mean she is not being paid so why should she stay?
Cheers
Fergie87
Lena
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