Where Does She Stand?

[GC8]

Permanent position, 42 'contracted' hours per week.

No contract of employment.
No breaks (for up to 12 hours).
No overtime rate.
No holiday pay.

A friend of mine has a job that she loves, but Ive summarised the problems, as I see them, above. I realise that an overtime rate isnt compulsary, but considering the number of hours that she does and on top of everything else, it pisses me off..

Opinions about her legal position and that of her employer appreciated.

[JonRB]

It's all dependent on the contract of employment. Which appears not to exist, so will be statutory.

Also, how can she be contracted to 42 hours when there is no contract?

[Eric Mc]

There probbaly is a contract - but perhaps not a written one.

[Landlord]

ACAS should be able to help...

[singlecoil]

Sounds like a fake self employment scenario.

[DavidY]

Did she sign an offer letter and return it to the company? That's often considered the basis for employement

[Jasandjules]

Eric Mc said:

There probbaly is a contract - but perhaps not a written one.

Could be.

How long has she been there OP? There is a legal obligation to provide a written contract of employment........

I take it she is an employee and not a temp?

[GC8]

Yes, permanent, not temporary. PAYE through employers accountant (his calculation, not his payroll). When referring to her 'contracted' hours I did so for brevitys sake; there is, of course, not actual contract (nor is there a letter of agreement).

My principal concerns are:

[i]no breaks at all [ii]no written contract of employment [iii]no holiday pay

[Landlord]

Honestly - ACAS the st out of it, but... as I understand it;

1) A written contract is not a necessity, the fact that she's worked there (pay slips/regular bank payments/witnesses/etc) is potentially enough to "prove" she's an employee
2) No breaks at all is illegal

[GC8]

There for four months, sorry.

[JonRB]

GC8 said:

My principal concerns are:
[i]no breaks at all [ii]no written contract of employment [iii]no holiday pay

How has this been communicated? Verbally, presumably?

(i) sounds illegal unless it is a case that any breaks are unpaid?
(iii) is plausible if the renumeration reflects the lack of pay. My ex used to employ part-time helpers and made it clear that their hourly rate included an adjustment for a lack of paid holiday. Not sure that you can do that with full-time staff though.

Got to say the whole thing sounds very irregular.

[Jasandjules]

GC8 said:

There for four months, sorry.

OK, she is entitled to a contract of employment (written) after two months. Has she asked for one?

Of course, fundamentally, is she willing to do anything about these issues? At four months she can be terminated without reason! The ERA doesn't kick in until she's had 12 months employment (unless she was a temp with them previously for eight months of course)..

[GC8]

She is extremely happy; and understandably reluctant to insist (although she is very well regarded). The contract is only a niggle, but the paid holiday really pisses me off. From her point of view the breaks arent important - again its the principle thats irking me.

[edc]

GC8 said:

She is extremely happy; and understandably reluctant to insist (although she is very well regarded). The contract is only a niggle, but the paid holiday really pisses me off. From her point of view the breaks arent important - again its the principle thats irking me.

If she is happy, why get involved and why rock the boat?

Breaks - yes, there are stautory entitlements but is she really prevented from grabbing a sandwich , making a cup of tea or going to the toilet? I have a contractual lunch break - how long I'm not even sure - and it is enough for me to take a brief break and get something to eat.

[Jasandjules]

GC8 said:

She is extremely happy; and understandably reluctant to insist (although she is very well regarded). The contract is only a niggle, but the paid holiday really pisses me off. From her point of view the breaks arent important - again its the principle thats irking me.

Do her colleagues get paid holiday?

I can appreciate your position but unless she is willing to do something, you are stuck. Therefore if you want to be more than friends with her, just support her.......

[DSM2]

Jasandjules said:

OK, she is entitled to a contract of employment (written) after two months. Has she asked for one?

No she isn't. She's entitled to a Statement of Particulars. Not the same thing.

[BMWBen]

What the hell kind of job is this??

[GC8]

She is the manager of a start-up deli in a small rural village; owned and alongside a gastro-pub. I dont believe that any of the pub employees receive paid holidays either, but I cant be certain.

[Burrito]

I may have missed it, but how does she know she doesn't get paid holiday?

[don4l]

JonRB said:

How has this been communicated? Verbally, presumably?

(iii) is plausible if the renumeration reflects the lack of pay. My ex used to employ part-time helpers and made it clear that their hourly rate included an adjustment for a lack of paid holiday. Not sure that you can do that with full-time staff though.

I don't believe that you can do that with part time staff nowadays. AFAIK, everybody is entitled to 4 weeks + bank holidays.

Don
--