Getting into IT, bright but late bloomer. What to do?
Discussion
I'm 23, jobless, very bright but until recently I just kind of dossed through life. I lucked my way into university, aced the first two years of computer science, but in the 3rd year, outside influence tangled with my then non-existant work ethic and I failed miserably (couldn't even be bothered to attend exams). After that I ended up working in a couple of places temporarily that had nothing to do IT with no prospects, working for the sake of working.
Over the last year, I've sorted myself and have a real desire to succeed, to work hard, to achieve something. I've chosen my direction, I want to go into IT; my first love, something that comes very naturally to me, be it networking, coding or theory. Problem is that I failed that 3rd year of uni, technically I do have a Foundation Degree with distinction, which is just the first 2 years of a degree as it's own qualification, but companies are yet to recognise them. Getting into IT is difficult enough with a degree, without, it seems virtually impossible no matter how great one's work ethic may be.
I'm lost, how can I get my foot in the door in this climate? Feels like I may have answered my own question and retaking the final year may be my only option?
Over to you.
Over the last year, I've sorted myself and have a real desire to succeed, to work hard, to achieve something. I've chosen my direction, I want to go into IT; my first love, something that comes very naturally to me, be it networking, coding or theory. Problem is that I failed that 3rd year of uni, technically I do have a Foundation Degree with distinction, which is just the first 2 years of a degree as it's own qualification, but companies are yet to recognise them. Getting into IT is difficult enough with a degree, without, it seems virtually impossible no matter how great one's work ethic may be.
I'm lost, how can I get my foot in the door in this climate? Feels like I may have answered my own question and retaking the final year may be my only option?
Over to you.
Speed_Demon said:
Getting into IT is difficult enough with a degree, without, it seems virtually impossible no matter how great one's work ethic may be.
I would disagree. Its almost harder, you need experience... and start at the bottom. Helpdesk / support really. But see it as that.. a stepping stone.Good luck.
slow_poke said:
Get your degree. Go back to school and finish off 3rd/4th year.
Why?Its one of the most expereince driven industrys around isn't it? Granted qaulifications that are very specific to the role will help, but I'm not sure whether 2 years doing a degree is the best use of his time...
Start at the bottom and work your way up. If you find the right company and you're as bright as you think you are, you'll do fine.
The company I work for are excellent at doing that, but not many are. Aim for a medium sized business who are successful - any larger and you'll end up a number on ServiceDesk for a long time and any smaller and they'll be unlikely to take the risk.
Come to think of it, there could be a ServiceDesk position going around here IIRC.
The company I work for are excellent at doing that, but not many are. Aim for a medium sized business who are successful - any larger and you'll end up a number on ServiceDesk for a long time and any smaller and they'll be unlikely to take the risk.
Come to think of it, there could be a ServiceDesk position going around here IIRC.
okgo said:
slow_poke said:
Get your degree. Go back to school and finish off 3rd/4th year.
Why?Its one of the most expereince driven industrys around isn't it? Granted qaulifications that are very specific to the role will help, but I'm not sure whether 2 years doing a degree is the best use of his time...
Get some experience. Its worth much much more than a degree in my opinion and in my experience.
sharpfocus said:
Any chance of going back to that university to do your final year?
If you really are bright, I wouldn't touch a helpdesk role with a barge pole, it won't do you any good.
This is the problem. While I understand to get my foot in the door I have to take on entry level jobs, these are all 1st line support jobs that lead no where near the direction I would like to go in (web design/program design and coding). As well as this, I have friends in this role that absolute hate it, all of them. Progression is once in a blue moon as recognition is difficult to achieve.If you really are bright, I wouldn't touch a helpdesk role with a barge pole, it won't do you any good.
Last time I heard from them, the uni would only credit me with a 22 no matter how well I did if I re-took the final year, however, I may ring and enquire as to whether I can change this with an extra module.
Speed_Demon said:
This is the problem. While I understand to get my foot in the door I have to take on entry level jobs, these are all 1st line support jobs that lead no where near the direction I would like to go in (web design/program design and coding). As well as this, I have friends in this role that absolute hate it, all of them. Progression is once in a blue moon as recognition is difficult to achieve.
Last time I heard from them, the uni would only credit me with a 22 no matter how well I did if I re-took the final year, however, I may ring and enquire as to whether I can change this with an extra module.
Since you're not being more specific, why not use you intellect and write a few web sites, then use those as examples to potential employers? Presumably you already did some programming at Uni so it shouldn't take too long to familiarise yourself with more modern languages/toolsets. Last time I heard from them, the uni would only credit me with a 22 no matter how well I did if I re-took the final year, however, I may ring and enquire as to whether I can change this with an extra module.
University isn't really going to help you progress (IMHO), but a decent portfolio of work and a lot of enthusiasm may get you onto the bottom rung of the programming ladder.
Helpdesk "turn it off and on again" type stuff is your answer.
If you can find a company who will support you through a few certificates that would be good.
Other than that, if you could find a very small company who needs an IT support / admin guy... could be a way in. (Sell yourself as an administrator who can do IT).
If you can find a company who will support you through a few certificates that would be good.
Other than that, if you could find a very small company who needs an IT support / admin guy... could be a way in. (Sell yourself as an administrator who can do IT).
Speed_Demon said:
Last time I heard from them, the uni would only credit me with a 22 no matter how well I did if I re-took the final year, however, I may ring and enquire as to whether I can change this with an extra module.
See if you can, it's slightly ridiculous, but just having the degree gets you above most entry bars.Beyond that, as it's coding work you're after, write some and keep a record of it. Aside from building up projects of your own I'm sure you're aware that there's a vast array of open source stuff out there, things which aren't even just hobby programs but enterprise quality work. Most of which have guides for getting started contributing, but just jump in and hack some stuff.
https://github.com/languages
Find a target job spec. that you'd like to aim for and look through the requirements. I think this place is nearish to you, working here can open a few interesting doors: http://www.hmgcc.gov.uk/software.aspx
Edited by sharpfocus on Monday 12th September 17:24
_DeeJay_ said:
Start at the bottom and work your way up. If you find the right company and you're as bright as you think you are, you'll do fine.
The company I work for are excellent at doing that, but not many are. Aim for a medium sized business who are successful - any larger and you'll end up a number on ServiceDesk for a long time and any smaller and they'll be unlikely to take the risk.
Come to think of it, there could be a ServiceDesk position going around here IIRC.
You don't work for a recently bought out company, with a name now beginning with K do you? The company I work for are excellent at doing that, but not many are. Aim for a medium sized business who are successful - any larger and you'll end up a number on ServiceDesk for a long time and any smaller and they'll be unlikely to take the risk.
Come to think of it, there could be a ServiceDesk position going around here IIRC.
OP; your question seems to be the most common question here on PH in "jobs and employment matters" in my opinion, or it could just be that because I work in IT I tend to always read and reply to the "how do I get a job in IT?" posts.
Either way the general opinion from the majority of people who have many years of IT experience on PH (I am one of these with 22 years IT work experience) is that you need experience and without that you are going to struggle big time.
This means more often than not starting at the bottom in a help desk role on a crap salary doing boring mundane tech fixes. I know there will always be exceptions to the rule but the majority of people in IT start at the bottom and essentially do an informal apprenticeship before they can then identify a route that appeals to them (DBA, Networks, UI, Middleware etc etc) and then do even more of an apprenticeship before they become any good and possibly remain on average to poor wages as they build up that knowledge.
I will also say; that most people when they hear this answer reply with something along the lines of; but I want to be a network specialist, or a developer, coder, designer etc etc etc...not going to happen mate, never going to happen, not unless you do your time and get a real world reputation and experience that is backed up with current professional qualifications.
I personally wouldn't bother with finishing your degree if you have set your heart on IT, I would chase the help desk role's and work hard to develop a reputation and career path from that but believe me that can be very hard, it took me several years to learn my skills and break away from a help desk job, but was a very worthwhile route in.
Finish your degree if you want more career options than just IT as a degree gives you more opportunity for jobs beyond just IT.
Also, may be just my experience but although I have recently employed several IT grads on a grad scheme, what they learned technically at Uni has been little to no use to me at all as it just doesn't seem to fit in to the real world of IT. All very basic and generic and generally what I would term domestic IT and not commercial IT if that makes sense.
I have employed the Grads I have because they have the right aptitude (interestingly the successful ones all had placement experience and had business experience that came across in their interviews when compared to their peers who had no placement experience), to a person none of them had the right technical skills.
I'm not saying this is you OP but all too often people say they want to get in to IT because they have an interest in computers and they can do a bit of this and a bit of that, well thats all well and good but this is a job a professional career and it takes much more than that. For the majority of my career I had no personnal interest at all in computers and I didn't own one at home until 10 years ago; this was my job not my hobby and to much the same extent that remains the same today(and I know many like me in IT). Don't assume that because you like messing with computers or coding etc that you are cut out to do it as a living, Business IT is very different and the geeky world is being pushed out by the ruthless IT business environment and many of the geeks struggle with the new order.
Either way the general opinion from the majority of people who have many years of IT experience on PH (I am one of these with 22 years IT work experience) is that you need experience and without that you are going to struggle big time.
This means more often than not starting at the bottom in a help desk role on a crap salary doing boring mundane tech fixes. I know there will always be exceptions to the rule but the majority of people in IT start at the bottom and essentially do an informal apprenticeship before they can then identify a route that appeals to them (DBA, Networks, UI, Middleware etc etc) and then do even more of an apprenticeship before they become any good and possibly remain on average to poor wages as they build up that knowledge.
I will also say; that most people when they hear this answer reply with something along the lines of; but I want to be a network specialist, or a developer, coder, designer etc etc etc...not going to happen mate, never going to happen, not unless you do your time and get a real world reputation and experience that is backed up with current professional qualifications.
I personally wouldn't bother with finishing your degree if you have set your heart on IT, I would chase the help desk role's and work hard to develop a reputation and career path from that but believe me that can be very hard, it took me several years to learn my skills and break away from a help desk job, but was a very worthwhile route in.
Finish your degree if you want more career options than just IT as a degree gives you more opportunity for jobs beyond just IT.
Also, may be just my experience but although I have recently employed several IT grads on a grad scheme, what they learned technically at Uni has been little to no use to me at all as it just doesn't seem to fit in to the real world of IT. All very basic and generic and generally what I would term domestic IT and not commercial IT if that makes sense.
I have employed the Grads I have because they have the right aptitude (interestingly the successful ones all had placement experience and had business experience that came across in their interviews when compared to their peers who had no placement experience), to a person none of them had the right technical skills.
I'm not saying this is you OP but all too often people say they want to get in to IT because they have an interest in computers and they can do a bit of this and a bit of that, well thats all well and good but this is a job a professional career and it takes much more than that. For the majority of my career I had no personnal interest at all in computers and I didn't own one at home until 10 years ago; this was my job not my hobby and to much the same extent that remains the same today(and I know many like me in IT). Don't assume that because you like messing with computers or coding etc that you are cut out to do it as a living, Business IT is very different and the geeky world is being pushed out by the ruthless IT business environment and many of the geeks struggle with the new order.
Speed_Demon said:
these are all 1st line support jobs that lead no where near the direction I would like to go in (web design/program design and coding).
Well... which is it? In the Venn diagram of web design and program design, only a tiny fraction is overlapped. You need to start thinking properly about which route you want to take and then look at the entry level jobs for that discipline.
Look at the job boards for as long as you can (try not to get discouraged by every single one wanting experience and a degree) and get an idea of the sort of positions that are offered, the ones that are quite common, and see if you like the sound of those.
Why people continue to advise you to do help desk roles even after you stated an interest in web design/coding I do not know. Puts paid to the myth that IT people are analytical and have good attention to detail, that's for sure.
Web design/program design and coding needs different skills and abilities. Is your emphasis on the design - the look/feel, graphical design, front-end, user experience or implementing/coding up a website?
Then think about where you want to do this - corporate (informational) websites, retail, media, social media etc.
Have you considered building up a small portfolio of works? For example, build/maintain a few websites for some local sports clubs or activity/social groups i.e. non-commercial who have to scrape by on goodwill rather than paying out shed loads for a company/contractor?
Armed with your portfolio, then identify the companies who fit what you want to do and approach them. In the media world there's lots of agencies who do campaigns, advertising management etc for larger companies, so if that grabs you then they'd be a good place to start. IMO a direct approach is likely to be best as a general recruitment agency will put you at the bottom of their pile because you don't tick the qualifications boxes.
Oh, and don't think that just because you're in IT that you'll quickly end up earning mega bucks - even more so outside of London. It's a slog to work your way up. Initiative and drive will help.
Then think about where you want to do this - corporate (informational) websites, retail, media, social media etc.
Have you considered building up a small portfolio of works? For example, build/maintain a few websites for some local sports clubs or activity/social groups i.e. non-commercial who have to scrape by on goodwill rather than paying out shed loads for a company/contractor?
Armed with your portfolio, then identify the companies who fit what you want to do and approach them. In the media world there's lots of agencies who do campaigns, advertising management etc for larger companies, so if that grabs you then they'd be a good place to start. IMO a direct approach is likely to be best as a general recruitment agency will put you at the bottom of their pile because you don't tick the qualifications boxes.
Oh, and don't think that just because you're in IT that you'll quickly end up earning mega bucks - even more so outside of London. It's a slog to work your way up. Initiative and drive will help.
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