Should I sign this contract?

[oldcynic]

I've just started my first ever full-time permanent job last week at the ripe old age of 43 after many years temping, contracting, and running a family business. For reasons which are beyond me the contract finally arrived on the Saturday and I started on the Monday (5th). It's still sitting in front of me, unsigned, as some of the terms seem a little hard to swallow.

Specific reason for this post is a section headed "Commitment to the Company", and a paragraph reading approximately

"You will do as you are told by the company and will devote all your time, skill and attention to your job. You will advise promptly in writing to the Company all interests in any business other than that of the company and will tell the company promptly of changes in your external interests. Except with written permission from your Manager you will not during your employment be directly or indirectly engaged, concerned or interested whether as principal, servant or agent ... in any other trade, business or occupation other than the business of the Company"

Is it really normal to sign such an undertaking when accepting a permanent job? Should I just cross through the offending paragraph and sign & return the contract with a covering letter? Will the large American firm involved tell me to bugger off if I do so?

I have no intention of working night shifts and arriving at work in an unfit state, or using company equipment to run a small business on the side, but I don't see why I should be asking permission to offer freelance tech support in my spare time or why helping out with my parents' bookshop (of which I am a Director) is any concern of 'The Company'.

[rog007]

This is standard fare for large organisations attempting, bluntly I admit, to protect their investment (in you). In most cases signing will make little difference. If however you intend to retain a complex portfolio of work whilst in their employ, and there is even a tiny chance that they may view some of that as a threat, it may be better to have a meeting with the HR department to go through it and understand it better from their perspective. I am confident that this would resolve any issues or perceptions to both your satisfaction. Good luck!

[slow_poke]

oldcynic said:

"You will do as you are told by the company...

And what if it's something illegal, immoral, unethical or unprofessional?

[oldcynic]

I think my disbelief is summed up most succinctly by the fact that they pay me 37.5 hours per week but expect me to be at their beck and call 24 hours per day. Asking any relevant questions of my assigned HR professional is like swimming through treacle!

[NotKenBlock]

I had a similar issue when in one of my contracts it read;


"You will perform your daily duties as listed above, but will also perform any action or task that is seen fit by the directors of the company"

The mind boggled as to what task a director might see fit to ask me to perform.

[craigjm]

Standard contractual paragraph, although in this case clumsily written, to prevent two things -

you doing a second job and using the knowledge from the company to fuel that second job (most companies are not bothered if there is no conflict of interest)

allowing them flexibility with their staff so that if there is an emergency you can do other tasks without sitting there saying "its not in my job description"

both issues are rarely invoked in any company. Sign it and get on with the job and if you don't like the way they ultimately treat you find something else

[Iceman82]

craigjm said:

Standard contractual paragraph, although in this case clumsily written, to prevent two things -

you doing a second job and using the knowledge from the company to fuel that second job (most companies are not bothered if there is no conflict of interest)

allowing them flexibility with their staff so that if there is an emergency you can do other tasks without sitting there saying "its not in my job description"

both issues are rarely invoked in any company. Sign it and get on with the job and if you don't like the way they ultimately treat you find something else

This is correct but the drafting of the clause is disaster.

[crofty1984]

I have a similar clause in my contract. I'm fairly sure it's normal. Then again they're pretty reasonable where I work and they'd not stop me getting something part-time as long as there was no conflict of interest and it didn't impinge on anything I was doing in my Permie role. Not asked yet though.

[oldcynic]

craigjm said:

Standard contractual paragraph, although in this case clumsily written, to prevent two things -

you doing a second job and using the knowledge from the company to fuel that second job (most companies are not bothered if there is no conflict of interest)

allowing them flexibility with their staff so that if there is an emergency you can do other tasks without sitting there saying "its not in my job description"

both issues are rarely invoked in any company. Sign it and get on with the job and if you don't like the way they ultimately treat you find something else

I have already signed additional forms promising not to use information gained from this employment to gain a competitive advantage etc, along with various security clearance forms regarding my conduct. I have also deleted a clause on one of the forms giving the employer rights to anything I invent whilst working there or for 6 months after I cease working there.

As for the contract being completely standard across all employees, it's not. I am surrounded by colleagues who have tupe'd across with a completely different set of terms and conditions, and have already been offered a redrafted contract on account of some other glaring errors around bank holidays.

I have no problem undertaking the work I am tasked with and working hours according to business requirements (within reason), but to sign a contract stating that BigAmericanCorp owns me is a step beyond.

[khushy]

just because its in a contract and you sign it - doent mean its enforceable in any form whatsoever!

Employment contracts are a joke and its usually the employee thats totally protected anyway - sign it, take the job - take the salary be greatful - build up your knowledge/skill/contacts/experience - resign - start your own business doing the same - happy days :-)

[sharpfocus]

Don't sign a contract you're not comfortable with, it's not worth it. I've never asked for a term to be crossed out that hasn't been... yet.

[Slurms]

khushy said:

just because its in a contract and you sign it - doent mean its enforceable in any form whatsoever!

Employment contracts are a joke and its usually the employee thats totally protected anyway

Yeah plus judges have a habit of siding with individuals against the evil giant corporates...

I wouldn't worry it's standard contract terms to stop you moonlighting.. Ignore it and I doubt you'll ever have an issue..

Ok Unless you start offering freelance tech support from your desk during office hours..

[oldcynic]

Slurms said:

Yeah plus judges have a habit of siding with individuals against the evil giant corporates...

I wouldn't worry it's standard contract terms to stop you moonlighting.. Ignore it and I doubt you'll ever have an issue..

Ok Unless you start offering freelance tech support from your desk during office hours..

Well I lost the will to fight / debate / reason so I have signed the contract on the basis that I honestly don't have time to do anything else on the side. I have crossed through the utterly stupid "everything I invent belongs to them" clause and am waiting to see whether anyone cares. (not that I've ever invented anything in my life, but one can't be too careful)

We're in a recession and BigAmericanCorp is willing to pay me market rate to get my skills back up to date and send me on training courses, so they can own me for as long as it suits me. Several interviews and no other offers tell me I'm not in the best of positions to negotiate. And as suggested above, I really don't see anyone noticing if I fix a few PC's at the weekend.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

[LiveLife]

As Swerni has correctly pointed out, as soon as you start work for them you are deemed to have accepted any terms that you have not queried in writing prior to starting; this is known as the 'battle of the forms'.

See this link for more info: http://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/resources/articles/...

[LiveLife]

As Swerni has correctly pointed out, as soon as you start work for them you are deemed to have accepted any terms that you have not queried in writing prior to starting; this is known as the 'battle of the forms'.

Sending a contract out to arrive just a few days before the contractual start date so that you have little time to review the contract terms is (unfortunately) common practice in the construction industry.

See this link for more info: http://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/resources/articles/...

Edited by LiveLife on Wednesday 21st September 21:39