Discussion
clived said:
How have you worked out that losing a Vectra is worth £10k per annum?
The same way the government tax me on it, the cost of a replacement new vehicle. As in my post above, take into account servicing, tyres, insurance, tax and depreciation I think £500 a month or 6k a year is a fair assumption, therefore I need to gross 10k to net 6k roughly.
SimonMaidenhead said:
Some advise would be much appreciated. I've been with the same company for over 20 years now and have had a company car provided. We were taken over recently and the cars are being changed, from a clapped out old vectra to a new BMW 3 series diesel, all that is except mine. I've been told that my position doesn't warrant a car and therefore I can keep the old vectra for the time being until they decide to get rid of it, and after that my car wouldn't be replaced.
I will not be getting a car allowance and will not get any increase in wages to compensate for the loss.
Do I have any rights or is it a case of hard luck?
Just to point out, the car is not mentioned in my contract but a do have past P11D's to prove I have had the car and paid all taxes for it.
TIA
Sorry Simon - unfortunately its a case of "hard luck". Given that it isn't/wasn't contractual it can be removed at will. AIUI even if it had been contractual it could still have been removed but the company would need to demonstrate a substantive reason for doing so (see Final Salary pensions etc.)I will not be getting a car allowance and will not get any increase in wages to compensate for the loss.
Do I have any rights or is it a case of hard luck?
Just to point out, the car is not mentioned in my contract but a do have past P11D's to prove I have had the car and paid all taxes for it.
TIA
The fact it isn't in his contract but has been custom and practice for 20 years does add weight that he had a employee benefit that if removed he should be compensated for. Trouble is the new company know this as well and have taken the decision that he doesn't have a contractual right to the car through a business need and doesn't deserve one as a perk of his role.
You might want to check the documentation aligned to the Car Scheme rather than your employment contract. Specifically if states that the "perk" car scheme is not contractual.
So basically you are down to saying to your new employer if you don't compensate me for the loss of the benefit I believe through custom and practice is contractual then I'll take you to an employment tribunal for breech of contract. Do you really want to do this?
£10k is a pie in the sky figure. Why are you comparing this against the Business Need Car scheme. You will have to remove the tax difference and the additional business mileage benefit and then compare that to the vectra cost in the old perk scheme for the same business mileage and additional tax to get the true loss net loss of the Benefit.
You might want to check the documentation aligned to the Car Scheme rather than your employment contract. Specifically if states that the "perk" car scheme is not contractual.
So basically you are down to saying to your new employer if you don't compensate me for the loss of the benefit I believe through custom and practice is contractual then I'll take you to an employment tribunal for breech of contract. Do you really want to do this?
£10k is a pie in the sky figure. Why are you comparing this against the Business Need Car scheme. You will have to remove the tax difference and the additional business mileage benefit and then compare that to the vectra cost in the old perk scheme for the same business mileage and additional tax to get the true loss net loss of the Benefit.
personally i think 10k is about right, they must be paying £300 plus per month for the lease of the Vectra as well as all the other costs raised.
It is definately decision time for the OP though, a new company takes over and makes cost custs - nothing new in that, but i reckon redundancies are around the corner.
So - could it be a test? - if you roll over easy will you also roll over easy if they make you redundant?
if you battle hard, will that put you at the top of the list for redundancy - don't believe the fair selection criteria - names are offered up and the process for redundancy selection is made to fit.
so i would, - see if it is easy to get another job out there, if yes - battle hard to retain your benefit - either the car or the money - but run the risk that you'll be made redundant next year. With 20 years service you may decide that this is worth the risk as you may get a decent payout?
lots to consider - good luck.
It is definately decision time for the OP though, a new company takes over and makes cost custs - nothing new in that, but i reckon redundancies are around the corner.
So - could it be a test? - if you roll over easy will you also roll over easy if they make you redundant?
if you battle hard, will that put you at the top of the list for redundancy - don't believe the fair selection criteria - names are offered up and the process for redundancy selection is made to fit.
so i would, - see if it is easy to get another job out there, if yes - battle hard to retain your benefit - either the car or the money - but run the risk that you'll be made redundant next year. With 20 years service you may decide that this is worth the risk as you may get a decent payout?
lots to consider - good luck.
Jerry Can said:
personally i think 10k is about right, they must be paying £300 plus per month for the lease of the Vectra as well as all the other costs raised.
It is definately decision time for the OP though, a new company takes over and makes cost custs - nothing new in that, but i reckon redundancies are around the corner.
So - could it be a test? - if you roll over easy will you also roll over easy if they make you redundant?
if you battle hard, will that put you at the top of the list for redundancy - don't believe the fair selection criteria - names are offered up and the process for redundancy selection is made to fit.
so i would, - see if it is easy to get another job out there, if yes - battle hard to retain your benefit - either the car or the money - but run the risk that you'll be made redundant next year. With 20 years service you may decide that this is worth the risk as you may get a decent payout?
lots to consider - good luck.
+1It is definately decision time for the OP though, a new company takes over and makes cost custs - nothing new in that, but i reckon redundancies are around the corner.
So - could it be a test? - if you roll over easy will you also roll over easy if they make you redundant?
if you battle hard, will that put you at the top of the list for redundancy - don't believe the fair selection criteria - names are offered up and the process for redundancy selection is made to fit.
so i would, - see if it is easy to get another job out there, if yes - battle hard to retain your benefit - either the car or the money - but run the risk that you'll be made redundant next year. With 20 years service you may decide that this is worth the risk as you may get a decent payout?
lots to consider - good luck.
The £10k might be a sensible number (although I reckon closer to £7-8k) but it needs to relate to his benefit, not the business need one for the new scheme.
Being the owner of all the shares in a very small ltd company, I looked into the idea of the MD, (me) having a Company car, as I do 12,000 business miles a year.
For me and the business, the sums were swayed in favour of buying my own car with a budget of 5K and my company paying me 45p a mile for the first 10000 miles and 25p per mile above that, or having the company pay my fuel, and pay company car tax, and personal benefit tax (on the fuel for private use)
I could have leased a tax efficient small car, and claimed back the VAT, but after all the sums were done, I decided that it was better this way.
But it gets me thinking. If you've had a company car for years, and paid extra income tax on it, and been paid an allowance for the little business use you've had, you might find, offering to buy the Vectra at a trade price off them actually pays back on the saved tax in under a year. Then when you do have to go anywhere on company business, you have 3 options. Ask for 45p a mile. Say the Vectra isn't insured for business use and demand a pool car or hire car (cheaper than the train usually) or go by public transport and claim the train fare, and taxi rides.
If you do get use of a pool car, always check it over and refuse to use it for spurious reasons.
Mine were (over 15 years and 4 companies) : It's pulling to the left, it's making a weird noise, the spare is bald, the wipers a worn, there's no radio, it smells, it needs a good service, the engines just blown up.
If you go by hire car. It is THE law to redline it from cold.
For me and the business, the sums were swayed in favour of buying my own car with a budget of 5K and my company paying me 45p a mile for the first 10000 miles and 25p per mile above that, or having the company pay my fuel, and pay company car tax, and personal benefit tax (on the fuel for private use)
I could have leased a tax efficient small car, and claimed back the VAT, but after all the sums were done, I decided that it was better this way.
But it gets me thinking. If you've had a company car for years, and paid extra income tax on it, and been paid an allowance for the little business use you've had, you might find, offering to buy the Vectra at a trade price off them actually pays back on the saved tax in under a year. Then when you do have to go anywhere on company business, you have 3 options. Ask for 45p a mile. Say the Vectra isn't insured for business use and demand a pool car or hire car (cheaper than the train usually) or go by public transport and claim the train fare, and taxi rides.
If you do get use of a pool car, always check it over and refuse to use it for spurious reasons.
Mine were (over 15 years and 4 companies) : It's pulling to the left, it's making a weird noise, the spare is bald, the wipers a worn, there's no radio, it smells, it needs a good service, the engines just blown up.
If you go by hire car. It is THE law to redline it from cold.
bmw535i said:
SimonMaidenhead said:
No mention of a car in the contract, just always had one.
Again - this does not constitute an entitlement.Surely there must be at least 1 solicitor on here?
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