Contractual Hours Question

[K77 CTR]

I have worked for the same company for 6 years on a fixed rota. I am contracted to 37.5 hours a week and was on a 5 week rota. The rota consists of 4 weeks at 37.5 hours and 1 week at 28.5 hours. I have never thought much of it, thinking that it must equal itself out somewhere over the years.

Now they are questioning why I am a shift down every 5 weeks, where do I stand? Can they claim this time/ money back as they are the ones giving me that rota?

[jazzyjeff]

That sounds like the kind of mathematical problem you'd get as an A-level question

By their measure what you are saying is that you have worked around 62 shifts less than you should have. However, if they set the rota (and this was not done following your recommendation) then it's their mistake and I can't see how they can demand either any back pay or that you 'work the time'. Of course, if their maths is correct (and who is to assume it will be any better this time around?) they are of course within their rights to change the rota of your shift pattern going forward and you will have little grounds for disputing that (unless you can show that the new rota requires excessive shifts).

[K77 CTR]

swerni said:

So what is the logic to the 5th week change? have you ever questioned it?
Who set this schedule up for you and do you have anything in writing?


I think they would be hard pushed to ask for the money back, but I would be surprised if they didn't insist on making you work the hours you are contracted to in the future.

The fifth week change was the only way they could cover all the shifts I think. I've never questioned it as I (wrongly) assumed it all equalled itself out over the year. The rota was set up by my colleagues but is actioned by our scheduling centre as are the rotas for the rest of the very large company.

I am happy to have an extra shift added into the rota to prevent future issues but just want to make certain I cannot be blamed for this. I have never claimed that I am doing any extra shifts on my timesheet.

[jazzyjeff]

K77 CTR said:

The fifth week change was the only way they could cover all the shifts I think.

If it was both their decision and through operational necessity I don't see how they'd have a leg to stand on...

[Magic919]

K77 CTR said:

I am contracted to 37.5 hours a week and was on a 5 week rota. The rota consists of 4 weeks at 37.5 hours and 1 week at 28.5 hours. I have never thought much of it, thinking that it must equal itself out somewhere over the years.

Blimey. I can't see how any right-minded person would believe that it could ever even itself out. Four weeks at contracted hours and the final week is 9 hours light. Six years of that ought to be grounds for dismissal.

[voyds9]

Salaried or hourly rate.

If salaried then I see it as being paid for the job, hourly paid for what you do.

Either way their mistake.

[davepoth]

Very true. If they've told you to be there at a certain time, and you've been there, I reckon you're fine from a salary point of view. Same on wages provided they weren't paying you for the shift you didn't do.

[K77 CTR]

voyds9 said:

Salaried or hourly rate.

If salaried then I see it as being paid for the job, hourly paid for what you do.

Either way their mistake.

Salaried, the last thing I want to be accused of is fraud.

[AyBee]

Magic919 said:

K77 CTR said:

I am contracted to 37.5 hours a week and was on a 5 week rota. The rota consists of 4 weeks at 37.5 hours and 1 week at 28.5 hours. I have never thought much of it, thinking that it must equal itself out somewhere over the years.

Blimey. I can't see how any right-minded person would believe that it could ever even itself out. Four weeks at contracted hours and the final week is 9 hours light. Six years of that ought to be grounds for dismissal.

Confused me too...how on earth can something 'even out' if it never goes over the number of hours you're supposed to do but it does go under regularly?

[Slaav]

If you are salaried and that is teh rotation, then that is it!

Nothing more or less to think or worry about - sorry but that is obvious.

If you and a mate worke dout the shift patterns and it was your own 'machinations' that led to 'time off' then they may have a point.

Relax and get on with work

[NobleGuy]

AyBee said:

Magic919 said:

K77 CTR said:

I am contracted to 37.5 hours a week and was on a 5 week rota. The rota consists of 4 weeks at 37.5 hours and 1 week at 28.5 hours. I have never thought much of it, thinking that it must equal itself out somewhere over the years.

Blimey. I can't see how any right-minded person would believe that it could ever even itself out. Four weeks at contracted hours and the final week is 9 hours light. Six years of that ought to be grounds for dismissal.

Confused me too...how on earth can something 'even out' if it never goes over the number of hours you're supposed to do but it does go under regularly?

Yep, a bit of head in sand going on there... Having said that, sounds like it's their mistake.

[Kevin VRs]

Magic919 said:

Six years of that ought to be grounds for dismissal.

Since the company asked him to do those hours why would it be grounds for dismissal?

[AyBee]

Kevin VRs said:

Magic919 said:

Six years of that ought to be grounds for dismissal.

Since the company asked him to do those hours why would it be grounds for dismissal?

I think he was being sarcastic about how an employee has managed to do this without realising for 6 years - i.e. if they pay as much attention to their work, they're probably not doing it very well!

[dontfollowme]

I wouldn't like to be the scheduler that made that cock up.

[craigjm]

Their mistake but they are entitled to claim it back but you could offer to pay something tiny like a £1 a week. They cant discipline you unless they can show that you knowingly took the money without saying anything and proving that would be very difficult

[Slaav]

craigjm said:

Their mistake but they are entitled to claim it back but you could offer to pay something tiny like a £1 a week. They cant discipline you unless they can show that you knowingly took the money without saying anything and proving that would be very difficult

WIth all the usual caveats, this comes across as nonsense - sorry - IMHO!

YOu were employed as I understand things; they set your schedule - not you - you were presumably supervised to a degree, and they suddenly realise that they, your boss, or supervisor has been a numpty!

No way they can reclaim money from you if this is true - need more details and some extra common sense around me thinks?

[craigjm]

Slaav said:

craigjm said:

Their mistake but they are entitled to claim it back but you could offer to pay something tiny like a £1 a week. They cant discipline you unless they can show that you knowingly took the money without saying anything and proving that would be very difficult

WIth all the usual caveats, this comes across as nonsense - sorry - IMHO!

YOu were employed as I understand things; they set your schedule - not you - you were presumably supervised to a degree, and they suddenly realise that they, your boss, or supervisor has been a numpty!

No way they can reclaim money from you if this is true - need more details and some extra common sense around me thinks?

and you base that assertion on what employment law qualification / experience?

[Countdown]

craigjm said:

Slaav said:

craigjm said:

Their mistake but they are entitled to claim it back but you could offer to pay something tiny like a £1 a week. They cant discipline you unless they can show that you knowingly took the money without saying anything and proving that would be very difficult

WIth all the usual caveats, this comes across as nonsense - sorry - IMHO!

YOu were employed as I understand things; they set your schedule - not you - you were presumably supervised to a degree, and they suddenly realise that they, your boss, or supervisor has been a numpty!

No way they can reclaim money from you if this is true - need more details and some extra common sense around me thinks?

and you base that assertion on what employment law qualification / experience?

I think the principle of estoppel applies.

K77 was led to believe that the pay he was receiving was in accordance with the hours he was working. In this case the employer can request that the overpayment is repaid but cannot enforce it by automatic deduction of pay.

[craigjm]

Countdown said:

craigjm said:

Slaav said:

craigjm said:

Their mistake but they are entitled to claim it back but you could offer to pay something tiny like a £1 a week. They cant discipline you unless they can show that you knowingly took the money without saying anything and proving that would be very difficult

WIth all the usual caveats, this comes across as nonsense - sorry - IMHO!

YOu were employed as I understand things; they set your schedule - not you - you were presumably supervised to a degree, and they suddenly realise that they, your boss, or supervisor has been a numpty!

No way they can reclaim money from you if this is true - need more details and some extra common sense around me thinks?

and you base that assertion on what employment law qualification / experience?

I think the principle of estoppel applies.

K77 was led to believe that the pay he was receiving was in accordance with the hours he was working. In this case the employer can request that the overpayment is repaid but cannot enforce it by automatic deduction of pay.

Exactly they ARE entitled to claim it back but cannot do it without permission as this would be an unlawful deduction from wages. They would therefore have to come to a repayment arrangement.

[davepoth]

It'd be interesting to see how it squares with the contract of employment, but certainly if the OP is on a rota that is subject to change I should think that that would be written in, allowing the company to adjust the hours without having to adjust the contract.