Telling a recruitment consultant how much you earn
Discussion
This is my ploy.
I say "I'd rather not disclose that, in the same way that Apple won't disclose how much an I-phone costs to make"
Then having confused them I say "I'm probably overqualified for this role, what's the hourly rate they told you?"
Then they lie because they think they can get an extra £5 an hour out of it and say "The highest they can go is £30"
Then I say "If that's true, you are going to be searching long and hard to fill all the requirements they've specified" and they say "Well they might be able to go to £32" and I say "It's not worth putting my name forward, as It's clear that they don't want to pay the going rate"
50.50 chance that you've just fecked up the best chance of a job in along time, vs, that they'll come back with "The client can go to £36" In which case you say "I'm not sure, Well okay, you can put my CV forward"
I say "I'd rather not disclose that, in the same way that Apple won't disclose how much an I-phone costs to make"
Then having confused them I say "I'm probably overqualified for this role, what's the hourly rate they told you?"
Then they lie because they think they can get an extra £5 an hour out of it and say "The highest they can go is £30"
Then I say "If that's true, you are going to be searching long and hard to fill all the requirements they've specified" and they say "Well they might be able to go to £32" and I say "It's not worth putting my name forward, as It's clear that they don't want to pay the going rate"
50.50 chance that you've just fecked up the best chance of a job in along time, vs, that they'll come back with "The client can go to £36" In which case you say "I'm not sure, Well okay, you can put my CV forward"
Kudos, you seem rather bitter on this subject?
If you are having these experiences with agencies and not being put forweard for jobs then you may wish to review your CV (I'm not goading here)
Regarding salaries - it is relevant, at least from a ball park figure point of view.
If you apply for a job paying £50k and your've been on £20k for last few years then it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to realise you probably won't get the job. The recuiter is just trying to establish what roles are relevant and will be of interest to you.
Roughly speaking people try to get a 10-20% increase on salary when moving jobs (sometimes for no improvement, just better career prospects etc..) so it helps to know when a vacancy comes into an agency which candidates will be relevant for the job from a salary point of view.
Searches for suitable candidates are in the most, made by (not in any order) A) Location. B) Suitablility to role (experience/qualifications) C). Salary
If you are having these experiences with agencies and not being put forweard for jobs then you may wish to review your CV (I'm not goading here)
Regarding salaries - it is relevant, at least from a ball park figure point of view.
If you apply for a job paying £50k and your've been on £20k for last few years then it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to realise you probably won't get the job. The recuiter is just trying to establish what roles are relevant and will be of interest to you.
Roughly speaking people try to get a 10-20% increase on salary when moving jobs (sometimes for no improvement, just better career prospects etc..) so it helps to know when a vacancy comes into an agency which candidates will be relevant for the job from a salary point of view.
Searches for suitable candidates are in the most, made by (not in any order) A) Location. B) Suitablility to role (experience/qualifications) C). Salary
Soir said:
Kudos, you seem rather bitter on this subject?
If you are having these experiences with agencies and not being put forweard for jobs then you may wish to review your CV (I'm not goading here)
Soir, yes I do have a bitter view on the subject, along with probably 95% of those using this forum. By in far they are an absolute utter waste of space, the majority of positions they advertise have been long since removed or filled, so why continue to list the jobs?If you are having these experiences with agencies and not being put forweard for jobs then you may wish to review your CV (I'm not goading here)
I don't need to review my CV as thankfully I'm on the other side of the fence now employing people and get to see the "sales" sides of the agencies.
I can count on one hand the number of good recruitment "consultants" I've encountered. Search on here and you'll find this is a common theme.
TIGA84 said:
Why would you not?
Because you'll undersell yourself, or overprice yourself. In 1994 a Mate of mine went for a consultancy position in a big London firm, just after getting his MBA with Aston university, and having 6 years manufacturing consultancy experience in an automotive company.
He was earning £18K at the time. He went to an 2 days recruitment session with them, and during that they asked him 3 questions. 1) What do you currently earn? 2) What do you think our consultants earn, and 3) what do you think you are worth?
to 1) He lied and said £30K, to 2) He said £45K, and to 3) He said £45K
The feedback was
IF you have done everything you say you've done, (which he had) you would be on a hell of a lot more than £30K, If you were as clever as you think you are you would know what we pay our consultants is twice that, and you should have done your homework, and finally, the answer is always at least 20% more than you pay your average (ie mediocre) consultants, so £110K.
Rob Jeakins Where are you ? Last seen in Prague getting married to a local bird and working for Lucas AutoBuzdy.
I think it depends on what industry you're in.
At one time during my contracting career I went from permanent to a contract role. My salary almost doubled instantly. It is common knowledge what engineers earn so didn't make any difference at all.
Rates for the work I do are well known and on one contract my rate went up 33% just for changing companies. People do this all the time.
It may be the case where the agency taking you on earns a percentage of what your rate is, in which case it's in their interests to get you the best rate for your abilities. From experience it's normally the company that tries to screw you down to lessen the hit on both sides i.e. you and the agent.
As I said though, your industry may be different.
At one time during my contracting career I went from permanent to a contract role. My salary almost doubled instantly. It is common knowledge what engineers earn so didn't make any difference at all.
Rates for the work I do are well known and on one contract my rate went up 33% just for changing companies. People do this all the time.
It may be the case where the agency taking you on earns a percentage of what your rate is, in which case it's in their interests to get you the best rate for your abilities. From experience it's normally the company that tries to screw you down to lessen the hit on both sides i.e. you and the agent.
As I said though, your industry may be different.
Would saying "Look I'm really desperate, and I'm happy to work for free, but as soon as you've trained me, I'll take the next highest paying job that's offered to me, so just pay me slightly above the going rate and I'll stay until I get bored" help get a new job. I've always wanted to say something like that.
It depends. I always ask them what the rate is for the job first and if it's not as good as what I'm on, then I say what I'm on and tell them that's why I'm not interested and that if they want to bother me in the future, they now know what sort of figure I want.
If it's more, then I tell them I'm on the same and that to entice me to move it needs to be a lot better. It's worked everytime so far.
If it's more, then I tell them I'm on the same and that to entice me to move it needs to be a lot better. It's worked everytime so far.
I find more often than not I'll discuss what I want my next role to pay as opposed to what I'm currently earning. Whilst recruitment consultants get a bad press (and for good reason in some cases) I've now found 3, that I am in regular contact with who are a credit to the profession.
I was asked last year to have a talk with a company that was interested. The 3 directors each outlined what they would want from me and I concluded they wanted superman and there wasn’t enough hours in a week to do the job. They asked what I would want but I turned it round and asked what they were offering which got them by surprise and after a long silence made an offer. My reply was that I was earning twice that 5 years ago and proceeded to close my portfolio and in standing up the expression on the 3 faces Priceless. I think they are still looking to fill the position.
New POD said:
Because you'll undersell yourself, or overprice yourself.
In 1994 a Mate of mine went for a consultancy position in a big London firm, just after getting his MBA with Aston university, and having 6 years manufacturing consultancy experience in an automotive company.
He was earning £18K at the time. He went to an 2 days recruitment session with them, and during that they asked him 3 questions. 1) What do you currently earn? 2) What do you think our consultants earn, and 3) what do you think you are worth?
to 1) He lied and said £30K, to 2) He said £45K, and to 3) He said £45K
The feedback was
IF you have done everything you say you've done, (which he had) you would be on a hell of a lot more than £30K, If you were as clever as you think you are you would know what we pay our consultants is twice that, and you should have done your homework, and finally, the answer is always at least 20% more than you pay your average (ie mediocre) consultants, so £110K.
Rob Jeakins Where are you ? Last seen in Prague getting married to a local bird and working for Lucas AutoBuzdy.
What relevance has a near 20 year old story got to so with anything?In 1994 a Mate of mine went for a consultancy position in a big London firm, just after getting his MBA with Aston university, and having 6 years manufacturing consultancy experience in an automotive company.
He was earning £18K at the time. He went to an 2 days recruitment session with them, and during that they asked him 3 questions. 1) What do you currently earn? 2) What do you think our consultants earn, and 3) what do you think you are worth?
to 1) He lied and said £30K, to 2) He said £45K, and to 3) He said £45K
The feedback was
IF you have done everything you say you've done, (which he had) you would be on a hell of a lot more than £30K, If you were as clever as you think you are you would know what we pay our consultants is twice that, and you should have done your homework, and finally, the answer is always at least 20% more than you pay your average (ie mediocre) consultants, so £110K.
Rob Jeakins Where are you ? Last seen in Prague getting married to a local bird and working for Lucas AutoBuzdy.
Soir said:
Kudos, you seem rather bitter on this subject?
If you are having these experiences with agencies and not being put forweard for jobs then you may wish to review your CV (I'm not goading here)
What an agency looks for in a CV is often very different to what an employer actually looks for.If you are having these experiences with agencies and not being put forweard for jobs then you may wish to review your CV (I'm not goading here)
When I was younger I sent my CV to many agencies and over many months had a couple of calls asking if they could forward my CV to a company. Nothing more ever came from it. Towards the end of this time, I sent my CV directly to several companies. All of them phoned me back the same day offering me an interview and I had an offer from all of them within a fortnight.
I now sit on the other side of the fence and am responsible for recruiting developers for my company. I spend ages on the phone with agencies trying to get them to understand what we want from candidates and yet the CV's we then receive from them are 99% rubbish.
Maybe the problem is me and the way I communicate is just incompatible with agencies? Recruitment (especially in IT) is the one area I think is due for a massive overhaul at some point. It is currently in the v1.0 days, so in-line with Lycos or Excite for web searching in the mid 90's or Friends Reunited for social networking at the turn of the century. At some point in the next 10 years there will be a whole new way of connecting employers with potential employees. For me, it cannot come soon enough.
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