Is law a well paying profession?
Discussion
Rude-boy said:
I wasn't aware that there was anything I needed to get over. I thought that there was something insightful in your post and was hoping to draw it out, it seems I was mistaken.
Sorry if I touched a nerve!
You didn't touch a nerve, I just get annoyed by non mod self appointed forum rangers that tell people to keep threads on topic. The irony is that their actions are normally the one to take it off topic.Sorry if I touched a nerve!
Edited by Rude-boy on Friday 4th November 14:03
bigbubba said:
You didn't touch a nerve, I just get annoyed by non mod self appointed forum rangers that tell people to keep threads on topic. The irony is that their actions are normally the one to take it off topic.
With you, and whilst in this case I obviously disagree 
, I do agree with your sentiment
One message I will give loud and clear to anyone reading this topic though is that there are a lot of other walks of life where you can make as much or more than the average solicitor takes home for less than half the stress. As such unless it is a calling or you are a genuinely driven person with serious ability and a capacity for dealing with stress that would shame an Army General in a bright red tootoo on the front line, find another profession.
Generally speaking no its not.
3 years uni and then a year LPC unpaid and then a 2 year training contract for a start.
Yes, the magic circle firms when you are 24 ish you can be on £65k which is fantastic but there is little in the way of a pension, no company car and few perks. You are worked very hard and burn out rate is high.
However, for the people that didn't get a first from Cambridge and don't want to work in the city centre of london where property is priced high and you have a stressful commute then a qualified solicitor in the north can be on as little as £20k with no perks.
The VAST majority of solicitors are on well under £40k, there are some in magic circle firms that probably represent 1% that earn good money.
outside of london earning £50k is considered good.
However, in the top 1% of any job people are earning far more than £60k.
A newly qualified dentist can be on £100k plus with roughly a £30k pension contribution and better hours.
A newly qualified doctor can be on more, again with decent pension.
An Aldi area manager in say Newcastle can be on £42k with a good pension and free audi A4 which is worth say £10k per year to him so that's £52k. The 10k is obviously because if you bought one yourself you'd only get 6k after tax on the 10k which is £500 per month to buy, run and insure an A4
I suppose if you love law and earn good money then you may want to go for it but 7am to 9pm does not suit most people - yes, you could earn 500k one day but then you are likely 45 and your twenties and thirties have slipped by.
each to their own but i'd say compared to doctors and dentists then no it isn't.
3 years uni and then a year LPC unpaid and then a 2 year training contract for a start.
Yes, the magic circle firms when you are 24 ish you can be on £65k which is fantastic but there is little in the way of a pension, no company car and few perks. You are worked very hard and burn out rate is high.
However, for the people that didn't get a first from Cambridge and don't want to work in the city centre of london where property is priced high and you have a stressful commute then a qualified solicitor in the north can be on as little as £20k with no perks.
The VAST majority of solicitors are on well under £40k, there are some in magic circle firms that probably represent 1% that earn good money.
outside of london earning £50k is considered good.
However, in the top 1% of any job people are earning far more than £60k.
A newly qualified dentist can be on £100k plus with roughly a £30k pension contribution and better hours.
A newly qualified doctor can be on more, again with decent pension.
An Aldi area manager in say Newcastle can be on £42k with a good pension and free audi A4 which is worth say £10k per year to him so that's £52k. The 10k is obviously because if you bought one yourself you'd only get 6k after tax on the 10k which is £500 per month to buy, run and insure an A4
I suppose if you love law and earn good money then you may want to go for it but 7am to 9pm does not suit most people - yes, you could earn 500k one day but then you are likely 45 and your twenties and thirties have slipped by.
each to their own but i'd say compared to doctors and dentists then no it isn't.
t Jonha, and I thought I was dark.
Stuff that for a laugh.
Any job that requires losing your social life and working like a biatch is not worth a six figure salary. I honestly don't see the point in earning that kind of money if you have no time to spend it. I already know a bunch of guys that do that and it ain't pretty.
I'll take my lowly contractor wage, 4 day, 40 hour week anyday.
Any job that requires losing your social life and working like a biatch is not worth a six figure salary. I honestly don't see the point in earning that kind of money if you have no time to spend it. I already know a bunch of guys that do that and it ain't pretty.
I'll take my lowly contractor wage, 4 day, 40 hour week anyday.
Been there...well not in Law but with a 'Big 4' accountancy practice..
Back in the mid 90's
Left Uni was on £16k as a graduate.
Four years later a Manager - £40k with benefits worth 10K
Two years later a Senior Manager - £65k plus benfits worth 15K
All with quite smallish bonuses worth about 15% of gross pay...
Got to 37 and was totally burnt out...yes the money was good but the hours got to me...saw a lot of people 'burn' out and lose the plot...generally with stress and depression.
Also it was a 'toxic' working enviroment with people willing to stab anyone in the back to make it to the next level. Which with the above salaries meant people would do anything to climb the greasy pole.
Next step would have been Director (£90k plus £20k benefits).
Then the golden goose - Partner - £200k plus....
I quit before I lost my marbles and now back at Uni studying something that will pay a lot less but it's something that I will enjoy for the rest of my life and 'life' satisfaction is worth more to me than money.
Still there are a lot of people I worked with in my industry who are 'trapped' - huge mortgages, kids in private education and the keep up with the Jones's mentality. Spending next years bonuses/pay rises this year to 'maintain' their lifestyle.
I don't want to sound bitter as it's not the life for me and it does suit certain people with certain personalities and hard grafters...
But I feel that there's more to life than just money and the work/life balance wasn't worth it - to me.
More power to people who can/want to spend their lives this way but beleive me the 'firms' definatly get their 'pound of flesh'!!"
Back in the mid 90's
Left Uni was on £16k as a graduate.
Four years later a Manager - £40k with benefits worth 10K
Two years later a Senior Manager - £65k plus benfits worth 15K
All with quite smallish bonuses worth about 15% of gross pay...
Got to 37 and was totally burnt out...yes the money was good but the hours got to me...saw a lot of people 'burn' out and lose the plot...generally with stress and depression.
Also it was a 'toxic' working enviroment with people willing to stab anyone in the back to make it to the next level. Which with the above salaries meant people would do anything to climb the greasy pole.
Next step would have been Director (£90k plus £20k benefits).
Then the golden goose - Partner - £200k plus....
I quit before I lost my marbles and now back at Uni studying something that will pay a lot less but it's something that I will enjoy for the rest of my life and 'life' satisfaction is worth more to me than money.
Still there are a lot of people I worked with in my industry who are 'trapped' - huge mortgages, kids in private education and the keep up with the Jones's mentality. Spending next years bonuses/pay rises this year to 'maintain' their lifestyle.
I don't want to sound bitter as it's not the life for me and it does suit certain people with certain personalities and hard grafters...
But I feel that there's more to life than just money and the work/life balance wasn't worth it - to me.
More power to people who can/want to spend their lives this way but beleive me the 'firms' definatly get their 'pound of flesh'!!"
Yes, law CAN be very well paid, especially if you are employed by one of the Magic Circle. I know a fair few Magic Circle partners who are easily on £1m+ a year. At the lower end, the training contracts are around £40k and newly qualifieds are on c.£65k.
However, in comparison to similarly competitive/hard-working careers, the money is no different. Strategy consulting pay is similar (Bain/McK pay scales track very closely), and investment banking certainly pays more at the lower end (grad offers of £60k total package are pretty common).
Just like many other careers the variance in pay is huge. I know a very highly regarded criminal QC who probably earns about £300k a year, where a QC of similar calibre but specialising in IP law would probably earn 3-4 times that. Regional solicitors are on very average salaries.
However, in comparison to similarly competitive/hard-working careers, the money is no different. Strategy consulting pay is similar (Bain/McK pay scales track very closely), and investment banking certainly pays more at the lower end (grad offers of £60k total package are pretty common).
Just like many other careers the variance in pay is huge. I know a very highly regarded criminal QC who probably earns about £300k a year, where a QC of similar calibre but specialising in IP law would probably earn 3-4 times that. Regional solicitors are on very average salaries.
Dr Jekyll said:
There a re plenty of people in other careers who have no time for a social life due to the hours they work and are well short of £50K, never mind £100K.
True, but that is the way of the world and generally of peoples choosing. No job should require that you have no social life. Of course there are exceptions but there is never any connection between education/industry/level of work done etc.People that have no social life, due to work, are generally doing something very wrong to end up like this. I don't mean the single mum that works 2 jobs to stay off benefits but regular folk that are doing regular jobs.
I only earn ~£40k (which is decent for a 23yo, to be fair) and I'm not in law, in engineering, but I wouldn't trade it for the extra money. I work about 38 hours a week and it means I actually have time to have a life.
There's no reimbursement possible for losing your life to your job, no matter how much you love it.
There's no reimbursement possible for losing your life to your job, no matter how much you love it.
GroundEffect said:
I only earn ~£40k (which is decent for a 23yo, to be fair) and I'm not in law, in engineering, but I wouldn't trade it for the extra money. I work about 38 hours a week and it means I actually have time to have a life.
There's no reimbursement possible for losing your life to your job, no matter how much you love it.
"Only" forty grand @ 23, that's bloody good going in my book....There's no reimbursement possible for losing your life to your job, no matter how much you love it.
blueg33 said:
I know a few lawyers.
One is very senior in a London firm and earns over £1m. Another is a partner of a large firm specialising in corporate real estate and he earns circa £150-200k.
Both are well worth their fees
I too know and have had to deal with a few lawyers. I struggle to recall one that was 'well worth their fees' or who had any objective other than maximising the same........One is very senior in a London firm and earns over £1m. Another is a partner of a large firm specialising in corporate real estate and he earns circa £150-200k.
Both are well worth their fees
To be avoided like the plague.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff