Resignation - 4 weeks notice

[jac-in-a-box]

Looking for thoughts here guys...wife is a HT of a local authority primary school with a pi** taking junior teacher.
This teacher has been on long term "illness" with a difficult to diagnose complaint(she has apparently googled this illness, given the GP the symptoms and suggested to him she might have this complaint - that info' provided by one this teachers colleagues)

During this absence she has applied for and been interviewed for a job in a local university. She has continued to say she is not fit to return to work and provided the required doctor sick notes. The stage has now been reached where she has been offered the position and the uni' needs her to start as soon as possible.

This teacher has now intimated that she will tender her resignation next week, she is required to give 4 weeks notice, which conveniently for her takes her through the end of the current school session and holidays on full pay.

Hiring and firing is the remit of the LA's HR dept. While I can see the need for an employee to normally give 4 weeks notice, but with the uni' wanting her to start soonest and being confident the teacher will not return to work at school, perhaps the council could do her a favour and terminate her contract now?

This teacher has cost a significant sum in salary and just about sucked dry the schools budget for supply staff while sitting at home job searching with no intention of returning to work. Obviously a proposition that needs to be addressed by the HR people, does anyone with knowledge of employment law know if this is a realistic/possible direction to take this...it's in Scotland if that makes a difference.

[fido]

Wow .. I know this is the public sector .. but isn't that gross misconduct? She is a) supposedly sick b) going to interviews ..

[Deva Link]

There's no reason why her employment couldn't be terminated earlier...if she agrees.

Did the new job not require references?

[Countdown]

jac-in-a-box said:

Looking for thoughts here guys...wife is a HT of a local authority primary school with a pi** taking junior teacher.
This teacher has been on long term "illness" with a difficult to diagnose complaint(she has apparently googled this illness, given the GP the symptoms and suggested to him she might have this complaint - that info' provided by one this teachers colleagues)

During this absence she has applied for and been interviewed for a job in a local university. She has continued to say she is not fit to return to work and provided the required doctor sick notes. The stage has now been reached where she has been offered the position and the uni' needs her to start as soon as possible.

This teacher has now intimated that she will tender her resignation next week, she is required to give 4 weeks notice, which conveniently for her takes her through the end of the current school session and holidays on full pay.

Is she on Teachers T&C's? I'm guessing so if she is employed by an LA school. If this is the case the standard notice period is a minimum of one half-term. For example to leave on 31st December she should hand her notice in before the end of the October half Term, to leave at easter notice would have to be submitted before the February half-term holidays. Next week is nowhere near long enough. However if she is on long-term sick then it might be in everybody's interests to get shut of her quickly.

jac-in-a-box said:

Hiring and firing is the remit of the LA's HR dept. While I can see the need for an employee to normally give 4 weeks notice, but with the uni' wanting her to start soonest and being confident the teacher will not return to work at school, perhaps the council could do her a favour and terminate her contract now?

The LA HR can do this quite easily. However there might be a fair bit of paperwork involved and with Xmas on the horizon the process can sometimes stretch out longer than it needs to. The HT needs to be proactive and keep reminding the LA HR to get everything sorted.

jac-in-a-box said:

This teacher has cost a significant sum in salary and just about sucked dry the schools budget for supply staff while sitting at home job searching with no intention of returning to work. Obviously a proposition that needs to be addressed by the HR people, does anyone with knowledge of employment law know if this is a realistic/possible direction to take this...it's in Scotland if that makes a difference.

Firstly I know exactly where you're coming from. Having said that, if you're thinking this is unfair and there should be some kind of disciplinary measures I can definitely tell you there is no chance of that, for some or all of the following reasons that her Union will throw at you;

Being "sick" doesn't mean you can't apply for jobs
The fact that she was so desperate to leave is a clear indication of management failure ()
The fact that the School is even proposing this indicates a culture of bullying and harassment
In fact consider yourself lucky that a claim for constructive dismissal isn't being lodged
A qualified medical professional feels that she is unable to work. is the HT a qualified medical professional ?

I'm not bitter about dealing with Teaching union reps at all.........;)

[Countdown]

fido said:

Wow .. I know this is the public sector .. but isn't that gross misconduct? She is a) supposedly sick b) going to interviews ..

Nope.

"Supposedly sick" - she has a sicknote, no "supposedly" about it.[/devils advocate]
Nothing to stop you applying or attending job interviews (unless you were off sick with severe permanent agoraphobia).

[Mr GrimNasty]

When the Uni see her references and sick-leave record surely/hopefully the job will vanish?

[Countdown]

Mr GrimNasty said:

When the Uni see her references and sick-leave record surely/hopefully the job will vanish?

Therein lies the problem. If this happens she "returns" to her current employment thereby still being a problem for the HT.

[Chicharito]

Mr GrimNasty said:

When the Uni see her references and sick-leave record surely/hopefully the job will vanish?

It's rarely in anyone's interests to give a poor reference...

[Deva Link]

Mr GrimNasty said:

When the Uni see her references and sick-leave record surely/hopefully the job will vanish?

Can of worms now. They probably won't be able to see it, at least until they've offered the job.

Of course the current employer may not be keen to scupper her chances anyway.

[Engineer1]

Countdown said:

fido said:

Wow .. I know this is the public sector .. but isn't that gross misconduct? She is a) supposedly sick b) going to interviews ..

Nope.

"Supposedly sick" - she has a sicknote, no "supposedly" about it.[/devils advocate]
Nothing to stop you applying or attending job interviews (unless you were off sick with severe permanent agoraphobia).

Hell if you are off sick with any affliction or illness that is work or specific job related then looking to change job whilst off sick is not unreasonable. If you where off sick from a manual job with reduced mobility in your arm then looking for something less manual would be logical.

[Mr GrimNasty]

I meant let her resign. Then give an honest reference. There is no can of worms involved by stating her sick leave record.

And get a grip, and start a formal performance improvement review/disciplinary process. Because the sooner you start…….

If she’s unfit to work now, but fit enough to attend a stressful interview process and anticipate and commit to starting a new job, come on - really? Unions reps/employee rights are strong, but not unbeatable.

[DSM2]

Countdown said:

Nope.

"Supposedly sick" - she has a sicknote, no "supposedly" about it.[/devils advocate]
Nothing to stop you applying or attending job interviews (unless you were off sick with severe permanent agoraphobia).

I appreciate you might know this but supposedly is exactly right. There seems to be no real reason to believe the woman. Sick note? Don't make me laugh, anyone can get one of those, sick or not.

[Deva Link]

Mr GrimNasty said:

I meant let her resign. Then give an honest reference. There is no can of worms involved by stating her sick leave record.

Both organisations in question are public bodies so they probably won't even ask about sickness for fear of falling foul of equality and discrimination legislation.

[Countdown]

Mr GrimNasty said:

I meant let her resign. Then give an honest reference. There is no can of worms involved by stating her sick leave record.

A definite offer isn't usually made until references are received. That's the dilemma - the only way you can get rid of bad employees is by giving them good or at best neutral references.

Mr GrimNasty said:

And get a grip, and start a formal performance improvement review/disciplinary process. Because the sooner you start…….

This isn't either performance or disciplinary. It's capability (specifically she is "incapable" of doing the job due to her poor attendance). The problem with putting Teachers on "capability" for sickness reasons is the very generous nature of the sick pay scheme and the way it can be manipulated by a devious Teacher and a vicious union rep.

Mr GrimNasty said:

If she’s unfit to work now, but fit enough to attend a stressful interview process and anticipate and commit to starting a new job, come on - really? Unions reps/employee rights are strong, but not unbeatable.

Ok - devil's advocate again

She is unfit for work (Doctors note) and your continual dismissal of this reflects the bullying and harassment culture endemic within the management in the School. Therefore my member will be submitting a Grievance to the Governing Body and to an industrial tribunal at which we will be calling the following 73 members of staff as witnesses. Oh and by the way with effect from next friday she is back from sick leave and back onto full pay (just in time for the summer holidays)

[jac-in-a-box]

Thanks for replies fellows...much of what Countdown has said reflects the reality of the situation, a doctors note is key to everything for the sly and devious.

Teacher in question is the schools union rep and appears to be more versed in her rights than in what she's paid to do, the trigger for this long lasting illness was probably due to her being advised that was a hairs breadth away from being placed on performance monitoring.

Is only 4 weeks notice up here in Scotland to resign (more in England?)and she's timeing in perfectly to maximise financial advantage to her while continuing to drain the schools supply cover budget.

The latest pee boiler is the text recieved last night asking that a place be reserved for her to attend the the Xmas bash and the money would be deliverd shortly (no doubt attendance will be put down as part of her recuperation process and therefore a legitimate activity in the unions eyes)
Anyway, down to HR to pick the bones out of this, be interesting to see what happens.

[Deva Link]

Don't think this stuff is unique to the public sector - we sacked a (female) sales person for non-performance. She'd worked for us for 2 yrs, following our takeover of another company and had spent tremendous periods of time off sick. Even when she was working, no-one had any idea what she was doing.

So you'd think "non-performance" would be easy for a sales job? She claimed she hadn't been supported or trained properly! We'd run courses but she'd often been off sick - apparently we should have rescheduled them!! She also went for sex discrimination as it was more difficult for a mother to be away from home. In the end our group legal recommended a settlement but everyone was *very* pissed off about it.