Grievance

[Rollcage]

Just venting here, not particularly after any advice


As a manager within the company I work for, I informed one of my staff that on the run up to Christmas (a busy time for us) that I would need her to perform a different function for a week to assist with this busy time. Several other people would be doing likewise.

This did not go down very well, with much thunderous looks and attitude. As I explained the reasoning behind our decision the lady in question brushed me off with a comment of " This place is all too much for me, it's beyond a joke". I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.

This lady said " You can't say that to me" and walked off. She finished her shift as instructed, and has been off sick ever since with "Work related stress". (She works part time, usually doing the same job. She is happy to help others if she suggests it. She has no managerial or supervisory roles)

I have today been told that she has filed a grievance with our Head Office (not within the Company Procedures) about my conduct.


I'm not in the slightest bit worried, as I haven't acted in an improper manner, and have the support of my boss and area HR manager, but this sort of approach bugs the hell out of me - "I'll do what I want, not what I'm told"

Where do people get such a sense of entitlement from?

[BluePurpleRed]

I guess just general social decay coupled with previous govt giving out the message of 'rights' for this and 'rights' for that, to pander to voters.

Also horrid companies who want to make money, so someone rings them and they see the £££ and tell the person ringing that they are 'entitled' to something for essentially nothing.

Again like govt it is short termist. "Well done" :rollseys: to that person they get some time off and maybe even a chance at some money. Will they be in a better place in their career in 2 years time because of it? No.

There is no penalty to the unambitious as the welfare state is so good and people are further and further from reality I guess these days.

[Johnnytheboy]

I feel your pain. Is she middle aged by any chance?

The great thing is (IME) the moanier they are the less likely they are to actually leave, and you can't ust wait for them to be at retirement age as even that's no guarantee that they'll leave.

Does the lady in question's contract/job description state that she "may have to cover other duties as necessary" or some similar cover all term?

[Soovy]

Rollcage said:

her

There's the problem. She's lining up a claim for sex discrimination which the company will have to settle as damages are unlimited, and a successful defence does not mean that the company's costs are reimbursed.

It's her exit plan.

[Podie]

Rollcage said:

I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.

This lady said "You can't say that to me" and walked off.

I assume you meant other jobs elsewhere in the company that needed doing...

[Rollcage]

Johnnytheboy said:

I feel your pain. Is she middle aged by any chance?


Does the lady in question's contract/job description state that she "may have to cover other duties as necessary" or some similar cover all term?

She is, and she does

Soovy said:

There's the problem. She's lining up a claim for sex discrimination which the company will have to settle as damages are unlimited, and a successful defence does not mean that the company's costs are reimbursed.

It's her exit plan.

She's pissed off because we have just made 14 people voluntarily redundant, with very generous payoffs, and she wasn't one of them.

Podie said:

Rollcage said:

I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.

This lady said "You can't say that to me" and walked off.

I assume you meant other jobs elsewhere in the company that needed doing...

No I didn't.


To paraphrase, she said she was fed up working for us, and I thus said she should consider leaving us and finding somewhere else to work.

[Soovy]

Rollcage said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I feel your pain. Is she middle aged by any chance?


Does the lady in question's contract/job description state that she "may have to cover other duties as necessary" or some similar cover all term?

She is, and she does

Soovy said:

There's the problem. She's lining up a claim for sex discrimination which the company will have to settle as damages are unlimited, and a successful defence does not mean that the company's costs are reimbursed.

It's her exit plan.

She's pissed off because we have just made 14 people voluntarily redundant, with very generous payoffs, and she wasn't one of them.

Podie said:

Rollcage said:

I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.

This lady said "You can't say that to me" and walked off.

I assume you meant other jobs elsewhere in the company that needed doing...

No I didn't.


To paraphrase, she said she was fed up working for us, and I thus said she should consider leaving us and finding somewhere else to work.

Sorry, she's lining your firm up here. The lack of her getting a "package" to leave is the catalyst here. She knows that if she claims constructive dismissal and sex discrimination it will cost £20k to fight it, so she knows the company will settle as it won't get its costs back.

[Rollcage]

Soovy said:

Sorry, she's lining your firm up here. The lack of her getting a "package" to leave is the catalyst here. She knows that if she claims constructive dismissal and sex discrimination it will cost £20k to fight it, so she knows the company will settle as it won't get its costs back.

Hmm, will find out later today. Area HR manager calling in, haven't yet seen the complaint letter myself.

[phil-sti]

Basically telling someone that " if you don't like it, find a job elsewhere" is a massive no no, she can basically say you have threatened her into doing a job she isn't, trained or physically able too. Never underestimate employees ability to twist a situation.

[Soovy]

Rollcage said:

Soovy said:

Sorry, she's lining your firm up here. The lack of her getting a "package" to leave is the catalyst here. She knows that if she claims constructive dismissal and sex discrimination it will cost £20k to fight it, so she knows the company will settle as it won't get its costs back.

Hmm, will find out later today. Area HR manager calling in, haven't yet seen the complaint letter myself.

I suspect that she will say you constructively dismissed her by saying "if you don't like it fk off and work somewhere else".

If this happens, then PM me.

[Rollcage]

phil-sti said:

Basically telling someone that " if you don't like it, find a job elsewhere" is a massive no no, she can basically say you have threatened her into doing a job she isn't, trained or physically able too. Never underestimate employees ability to twist a situation.

I didn't tell her to leave, or anything like that. Just pointed out the other opportunities out there. She's is perfectly capable of doing what she was asked, she just didn't want to. Her normal role entails doing much the same thing.

[Rollcage]

Soovy said:

I suspect that she will say you constructively dismissed her by saying "if you don't like it fk off and work somewhere else".

If this happens, then PM me.

Cheers Soovy. Hopefully won't come to that, it wasn't mentioned this morning when HR phoned. Just a complaint about me.

[Jasper Gilder]

There's a case about this - a few years ago a manager said to a worker on Grimsby ( might have been Hull) fish dock - " If you don't like it here you can fck off."

When the chap tried to claim unfair dismassal it was held that - within the context of where he was working, this was just an exhortation to get on with it and work harder. he lost his tribunal

[Podie]

In true PH style, I'm waiting for the woman to post her side of the story...

[Rollcage]

Podie said:

In true PH style, I'm waiting for the woman to post her side of the story...

That would be excellent. And slightly concerning!

[elanfan]

OP - just playing Devil's Advocate:

Whilst the old bat might be a pain in the arse (let me guess she is single and of a certain age?) it could be said that your man management skills could be called into question. Asking someone for help with a job rather than telling them you 'need' them to do it can come over better. Suggesting if you don't like it then clear off is again poor use of man management skills. Rather than her being pleased with herself for being able to help you out she is now off sick costing the company money and with potentially a claim against them. It only needs to have a few of these 'grievances' against you for your management to look at you in a whole new light!
DA mode off

Good luck.

[Rollcage]

elanfan said:

OP - just playing Devil's Advocate:

Whilst the old bat might be a pain in the arse (let me guess she is single and of a certain age?) it could be said that your man management skills could be called into question. Asking someone for help with a job rather than telling them you 'need' them to do it can come over better. Suggesting if you don't like it then clear off is again poor use of man management skills. Rather than her being pleased with herself for being able to help you out she is now off sick costing the company money and with potentially a claim against them. It only needs to have a few of these 'grievances' against you for your management to look at you in a whole new light!
DA mode off

Good luck.

I am very aware of how this scenario could be made to look, and it is exactly how you have laid it out above, but as usual there is more behind the scenes stuff that would come into play to fully explain the whole situation right now.
Suffice to say that until 8 months ago the Indians ran the show, and the Chiefs let it happen, hence the redundancy situation. Life as it should always have been has come as something of a shock to many people there, and the actions of this lady are not entirely unexpected.
When it was suggested to others what we aimed to do for that particular week, her name was mentioned straight away as someone who would "not be pleased" at being asked to do this!

While not wanting to say it was always going to happen, that's pretty much the case here - there was a certain inevitability about the situation. She should really have been sacked about 18 months ago over a similar situation, but the management of the time backed down, and now she feels invincible. It's not the first time it's happened.

It's also the first grievance I've had in a pretty long managerial career, and I've had many much more "honest" discussions.

Some people just don't like being told what to do!

[/defensive mode] !

[STW2010]

Any updates?

Has the old bint been told to do one?

[Rollcage]

Nothing as yet - won't get to see the letter until tomorrow.

I have been told that there is nothing to worry about and I have the support of those that matter, such as Area and Regional HR. Probably means I'm doomed then!

Nobody seems worried about any potential discrimination/constructive dismissal claims. As she is obviously finding the job too much, I have asked that she do something else on her eventual return. (IE I won't be her manager. We'll probably get her to work in a different department. She will refuse, citing "custom and practice", and she will then have a choice to make.

[Mobile Chicane]

Rollcage said:

Just venting here, not particularly after any advice

Just as well.

It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can fk off.