Discussion
Mobile Chicane said:
Just as well.
It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can f
k off.
With respect MC, you don't know the background to this.It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can f
k off. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with a bit of honesty. These days, people just don't expect it so much.
If somebody constantly complains about the workplace and their job, and in reality they have no pressure or stress yet still complain, and if you treat the person fairly even if they don't do likewise, then sometimes "I'm sorry you feel that way, but if that is the way you do feel then there are plenty of other jobs out there " is entirely appropriate. It's not rude, it's not underhand - it's just the truth.
Maybe I should have added " and maybe you would be better suited to one of them, as you don't seem happy in your current one?"
These people, and there are many of them, very rarely actually do get up and do something about the predicament they are in, other than complain.
I have to agree with Rollcage.
I'm something of a blunt instrument - I say it like I see it. My team are much the same, and we like the fact we know where we stand with each other.
That said, on occasions people who are not used to direct, forthright honesty need a little more delicate handling.
I'm something of a blunt instrument - I say it like I see it. My team are much the same, and we like the fact we know where we stand with each other.
That said, on occasions people who are not used to direct, forthright honesty need a little more delicate handling.
Rollcage said:
Mobile Chicane said:
Just as well.
It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can fk off.
With respect MC, you don't know the background to this.It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can f
k off. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with a bit of honesty. These days, people just don't expect it so much.
If somebody constantly complains about the workplace and their job, and in reality they have no pressure or stress yet still complain, and if you treat the person fairly even if they don't do likewise, then sometimes "I'm sorry you feel that way, but if that is the way you do feel then there are plenty of other jobs out there " is entirely appropriate. It's not rude, it's not underhand - it's just the truth.
Maybe I should have added " and maybe you would be better suited to one of them, as you don't seem happy in your current one?"
These people, and there are many of them, very rarely actually do get up and do something about the predicament they are in, other than complain.
A. You shouldn't have to beg and cajole an employee to do what they are paid to.
B. I never cease to be amazed how many people give the impression of being utterly unhappy with their job - which constitutes a large part of their waking hours - and yet don't have the impetus to do something about it. I also wonder if they care a jot about what efect their whinging has on the people that have to share a workplace with them.
She's resigned, coincidentally as her full pay sickness period came to an end. She never returned to work, and made no attempt to hear the grievance during her absence (which she was under no obligation to do, of course). No mention of any further complications in her resignation letter, so hopefully that will be the end of that!
She has form for this sort of behaviour - off sick with stress and a related grievance.
Last time she complained when she wasn't contacted about the grievance during her absence, so this time we dropped her a very polite letter indicating that if she wished to attend work for a meeting or hearing then to let us know. She then replied by saying that such contact was harassment!
Sometimes, you just can't win!
She has form for this sort of behaviour - off sick with stress and a related grievance.
Last time she complained when she wasn't contacted about the grievance during her absence, so this time we dropped her a very polite letter indicating that if she wished to attend work for a meeting or hearing then to let us know. She then replied by saying that such contact was harassment!
Sometimes, you just can't win!
Rollcage said:
phil-sti said:
Basically telling someone that " if you don't like it, find a job elsewhere" is a massive no no, she can basically say you have threatened her into doing a job she isn't, trained or physically able too. Never underestimate employees ability to twist a situation.
I didn't tell her to leave, or anything like that. Just pointed out the other opportunities out there. She's is perfectly capable of doing what she was asked, she just didn't want to. Her normal role entails doing much the same thing.I told her what she I wanted her to do for the week, yes. Thats my job.
I know how this could look if you wanted to be all bleeding heart about it, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth.
I decide what my team do and when, not them. This person had considerable form for doing similar over the years, and it's never been dealt with properly, as she has been seeen as "difficult". First time she gets challenged by someone whom she knows won't be intimidated , she's off sick and resigns.
Unfortunately, my current job was initially made pretty hard due to the weakness of previous management teams in always rolling over to the demands of people in exchange for an easy life. That was never going to happen, and it's been a tough journey to get the decision making process resting with the right people again, and this situation was just waiting too happen.
Feedback from several other staff members has been along the lines of too many people having their own way for too long.
Having said that, I'm not particularly happy about what happened, but sometimes you have to do or say things that aren't going to be popular.
I know how this could look if you wanted to be all bleeding heart about it, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth.
I decide what my team do and when, not them. This person had considerable form for doing similar over the years, and it's never been dealt with properly, as she has been seeen as "difficult". First time she gets challenged by someone whom she knows won't be intimidated , she's off sick and resigns.
Unfortunately, my current job was initially made pretty hard due to the weakness of previous management teams in always rolling over to the demands of people in exchange for an easy life. That was never going to happen, and it's been a tough journey to get the decision making process resting with the right people again, and this situation was just waiting too happen.
Feedback from several other staff members has been along the lines of too many people having their own way for too long.
Having said that, I'm not particularly happy about what happened, but sometimes you have to do or say things that aren't going to be popular.
Jesus. As a long time (15 years plus) senior manager myself, this is sadly far too typical and something I've experienced before.
Is yours a fairly small firm by any chance, i.e. fewer than about 50 employees?
I was a senior manager in a big factory for around 7 years, which emplyed around 250 people. Everything worked well, everyone knew their place and what was expected of them, there were rules and procedures that were fair that everyone was happy to abide by, and all was rosy in our gardens - we all worked well together.
Then I've recently had two roles doing the same job, but in smaller companies of around 40 people, with a more 'family' and 'friendly' atmosphere - indeed with family members working alongside each other, i.e Mothers and Sons, Brothers and Sisters etc. And where everyone is friends with out-of-work socialising, evenings out and barbeques etc. Ok, a little of this is good for team building, but too much garners an attitude of 'it couldn't happen here - we're all too nice and friendly for the recession to affect us'.
The inertia and resistance to change was breathtaking. Heads in the sand, oblivious to current economic conditions - had to be seen to be believed.
And the overriding factors that caused me the most trouble - women. Bloody women.
I'm not sexist, but by Christ some of these idiots are so unbelievably thick it's not funny.
I tried every management style, and method of communication in the book - each time basically stating that we either change and do things like this from now on, or there will be no more nice, comfy little company left for you to come to work at every day any more.
To be met with at best 'fingers in ears, can't hear you, la la laa' to at worst women breaking down in tears and going home with 'stress.' Then treating me with real personal vitriol and hatred, like I was the big bad monster coming to upset their nice little world, and that before I came, everything was all roses and pussycats and now it's all very stressful and hard work.
Fecking imbeciles. Well, have it your way, carry on with your nice little world and soon the whole damn place will fail spectacularly.
I will never work in a small or 'family' firm again. They're staffed by 'fluffy' people wearing blinkers!
Is yours a fairly small firm by any chance, i.e. fewer than about 50 employees?
I was a senior manager in a big factory for around 7 years, which emplyed around 250 people. Everything worked well, everyone knew their place and what was expected of them, there were rules and procedures that were fair that everyone was happy to abide by, and all was rosy in our gardens - we all worked well together.
Then I've recently had two roles doing the same job, but in smaller companies of around 40 people, with a more 'family' and 'friendly' atmosphere - indeed with family members working alongside each other, i.e Mothers and Sons, Brothers and Sisters etc. And where everyone is friends with out-of-work socialising, evenings out and barbeques etc. Ok, a little of this is good for team building, but too much garners an attitude of 'it couldn't happen here - we're all too nice and friendly for the recession to affect us'.
The inertia and resistance to change was breathtaking. Heads in the sand, oblivious to current economic conditions - had to be seen to be believed.
And the overriding factors that caused me the most trouble - women. Bloody women.
I'm not sexist, but by Christ some of these idiots are so unbelievably thick it's not funny.
I tried every management style, and method of communication in the book - each time basically stating that we either change and do things like this from now on, or there will be no more nice, comfy little company left for you to come to work at every day any more.
To be met with at best 'fingers in ears, can't hear you, la la laa' to at worst women breaking down in tears and going home with 'stress.' Then treating me with real personal vitriol and hatred, like I was the big bad monster coming to upset their nice little world, and that before I came, everything was all roses and pussycats and now it's all very stressful and hard work.
Fecking imbeciles. Well, have it your way, carry on with your nice little world and soon the whole damn place will fail spectacularly.
I will never work in a small or 'family' firm again. They're staffed by 'fluffy' people wearing blinkers!
Sounds familiar, yes. We had 98 staff in December, and had inherited a near enough 33% wage overspend. We now have 80 staff due to redundancies and wasteage, and underspend!
It was one big social club - lots of lunches and evenings out among a large group of staff, and the aforementioned lady was certainly a member of that fairly large clique.
The current management team are certainly seen as the bad guys, or were by many, as we had to implement this change . Life is just now starting to run on an even keel, our job isn't hard but sometimes you would think that we were slave drivers, listening to people. Actually, they still have it fairly easy by the standards of our industry - I have worked inplaces where far, far more has been asked of people. Sadly, about 20 years of management inertia and special treatment led us to where we were last year - it's a long and familiar story, but we are about where we need to be now, but it hasn't always been an easy journey for anyone involved.
It was one big social club - lots of lunches and evenings out among a large group of staff, and the aforementioned lady was certainly a member of that fairly large clique.
The current management team are certainly seen as the bad guys, or were by many, as we had to implement this change . Life is just now starting to run on an even keel, our job isn't hard but sometimes you would think that we were slave drivers, listening to people. Actually, they still have it fairly easy by the standards of our industry - I have worked inplaces where far, far more has been asked of people. Sadly, about 20 years of management inertia and special treatment led us to where we were last year - it's a long and familiar story, but we are about where we need to be now, but it hasn't always been an easy journey for anyone involved.
Rollcage said:
I decide what my team do and when, not them. This person had considerable form for doing similar over the years, and it's never been dealt with properly, as she has been seeen as "difficult". First time she gets challenged by someone whom she knows won't be intimidated , she's off sick and resigns.
I think you're extremely luck that she's resigned. In my experience of working in (ref: preceding couple of posts) a cuddly, family firm: the louder they moan, the less likely they are to actually up and leave. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff