Advice regarding becoming an Accountant please?
Discussion
Right first off I will give you a bit of background (I have posted in here before!)
I have currently just started a module with the Open University which will be counting towards a BSc hons Natural Sciences (Physics route), I have also just applied for the local college to retake my English GCSE (after that I aim to sit A Levels).......
My aim at the end of all this is to become an accountant, Im doing the Physics degree as I know it's regarded well in Finance (Also helps that I have a big interest in it too). I was hoping to get a graduate position with a big 4 firm (or medium) and I understand I will need a 2.1 degree to achieve that, but I also read that I will need 320 UCAS points....
Which is the problem I left school with GCSEs, but not A-C grades, now you have read all that rubbish! I basically want to know if it's worth sitting AAT while I do all this (I don't know whether I would be taking too much work load on though! (I work between 40-60 hours a week).
Advice really - What would you do in my position??? Should I bother with the degree if ultimately I want to be an Accountant, am I wasting time, should I sit my AAT then do ACA? I'm lost and need direction!
Edit to add I understand the AAT = 180 UCAS points and an A level 100 if you pass well??
*Waits to be picked out on my grammar again.
I have currently just started a module with the Open University which will be counting towards a BSc hons Natural Sciences (Physics route), I have also just applied for the local college to retake my English GCSE (after that I aim to sit A Levels).......
My aim at the end of all this is to become an accountant, Im doing the Physics degree as I know it's regarded well in Finance (Also helps that I have a big interest in it too). I was hoping to get a graduate position with a big 4 firm (or medium) and I understand I will need a 2.1 degree to achieve that, but I also read that I will need 320 UCAS points....
Which is the problem I left school with GCSEs, but not A-C grades, now you have read all that rubbish! I basically want to know if it's worth sitting AAT while I do all this (I don't know whether I would be taking too much work load on though! (I work between 40-60 hours a week).
Advice really - What would you do in my position??? Should I bother with the degree if ultimately I want to be an Accountant, am I wasting time, should I sit my AAT then do ACA? I'm lost and need direction!
Edit to add I understand the AAT = 180 UCAS points and an A level 100 if you pass well??
*Waits to be picked out on my grammar again.
I've done the AAT and now doing CIMA, but I haven't got a degree. In your position I'd concentrate on getting your degree at the best possible mark and getting sponsored (at the big 4 or otherwise) for Chartered afterwards.
EDIT - just re-read, you're not a School leaver are you?! If not I'd try and get a job and get sponsorship for a Chartered qualification. The AAT is a good stepping stone but ultimately it takes longer to get the end goal = Chartered. You may find it easier getting an opportunity fund AAT, it's not a hard qualification - I did it in 18 months working full time.
If a degree is really important you can get one as part of ACCA/CIMA (with a top up module) and I think the AAT also counts for the first 2 years at sponsoring universities.
EDIT - just re-read, you're not a School leaver are you?! If not I'd try and get a job and get sponsorship for a Chartered qualification. The AAT is a good stepping stone but ultimately it takes longer to get the end goal = Chartered. You may find it easier getting an opportunity fund AAT, it's not a hard qualification - I did it in 18 months working full time.
If a degree is really important you can get one as part of ACCA/CIMA (with a top up module) and I think the AAT also counts for the first 2 years at sponsoring universities.
Edited by masteryoda on Saturday 21st January 19:42
also mature entry route to ACCA/CIMA means you don't need to show any prior qualifications, you don't have to be in a job to start studying for those (ACA you don't either to start off with, but need to get into a firm with a training contract to have your experience signed off before you can qualify).
BPP & Kaplan Financial are good tuition providers.
You will eventually need 3 years practical experience for all chartered quals before you can be signed off qualified.
BPP & Kaplan Financial are good tuition providers.
You will eventually need 3 years practical experience for all chartered quals before you can be signed off qualified.
I've no experience of graduate positions as I haven't gone into the profession using the traditional route. Also you can only be "qualified" with the AAT after at least a years signed off work experience.
If it's the graduate route you want, you're probably better off getting the best result for your degree as possible, as I bet competition is fierce for graduate trainee positions at the mid-to big 4 accounting firms.
However, if you want to do accountancy you don't have to be trained by an accounting firm or need a degree to start off with, have you considered graduate or training positions in industry/government/not for profits? Cast your net wider so to speak? I started in a plc, then accountancy practice and now in a Not for Profit who are funding 100% chartered and give me study days etc. Admittedly I started the exams late and should really have finished by now as my experience is ahead of my qualification level (which now makes moving on difficult, temporary problem though for me though!).
Alternatively, if it's practice you're after, some smaller firms will take you on to train for AAT. You can do AAT in 18 mths then fast track from AAT to ACA in a further 2 years with exemptions, so fully qualified in 3.5 years.
Infact ACA give the most exemptions out of the chartered camp for AAT: http://www.icaew.com/en/qualifications-and-program...
I'm slightly biased as I don't value or have degree. From my point of view it's get Chartered and if I need a degree then I'll top up CIMA with an MBA (top up is a 1 Year course). AAT was useful as it taught me the basics and I hadn't studied for 6 years prior to starting off and needed to build my confidence, but you probabaly don't need this if you're planning on studying for a degree so there's nothing stopping you starting off on the certificate levels of the chartered quals while you seek employment (or finish your degree!)
If it's the graduate route you want, you're probably better off getting the best result for your degree as possible, as I bet competition is fierce for graduate trainee positions at the mid-to big 4 accounting firms.
However, if you want to do accountancy you don't have to be trained by an accounting firm or need a degree to start off with, have you considered graduate or training positions in industry/government/not for profits? Cast your net wider so to speak? I started in a plc, then accountancy practice and now in a Not for Profit who are funding 100% chartered and give me study days etc. Admittedly I started the exams late and should really have finished by now as my experience is ahead of my qualification level (which now makes moving on difficult, temporary problem though for me though!).
Alternatively, if it's practice you're after, some smaller firms will take you on to train for AAT. You can do AAT in 18 mths then fast track from AAT to ACA in a further 2 years with exemptions, so fully qualified in 3.5 years.
Infact ACA give the most exemptions out of the chartered camp for AAT: http://www.icaew.com/en/qualifications-and-program...
I'm slightly biased as I don't value or have degree. From my point of view it's get Chartered and if I need a degree then I'll top up CIMA with an MBA (top up is a 1 Year course). AAT was useful as it taught me the basics and I hadn't studied for 6 years prior to starting off and needed to build my confidence, but you probabaly don't need this if you're planning on studying for a degree so there's nothing stopping you starting off on the certificate levels of the chartered quals while you seek employment (or finish your degree!)
Hi there, I did ACA years ago pretty much straight after university. The Chartered Accountancy firms are very conservative in who they pick, and I think that the bigger they are the more conservative they become. It looks to me like the best route in to ACA is via AAT rather than going roundabout in doing degrees and A levels. Why do you want to be Chartered? There are other qualifications that are just as highly regarded and if ultimately you want to work as an accountant in commerce (which most Chartereds end up doing) then CIMA or ACCA would do the job just as well. There is a lot of snobbery about the Chartered qualification - I'm just as guilty of that as the next person sometimes but a lot of it is just that, and I believe it dates back to days when Chartered students got paid bobbins whilst Certified etc. could earn a bit more while they were studying.
You can't even practice with an acca unless you become chartered (self employed I mean - even MAAT gives more scope), my uncle is a chartered accountant who went on to do bigger and better things yet I have spoken to him since I was a nipper, I see being chartered as being successful and thats what I'm doing it for.
Im bored with work and life and for once in my life im determind to do something about it.
Im bored with work and life and for once in my life im determind to do something about it.
FeatherZ said:
You can't even practice with an acca unless you become chartered
What do you mean by that? You could do ACCA after A levels and work at the same time in a firm and be an ACCA qualified accountant in 3 years. ACCA will suit you well if you then move into industry and if you stay in practice you can use your work experience towards becoming a full member of ACCA and ultimately a practicing certificate.Big4 firms normally pick the people who have 1st class degrees and who follow more conservative routes. Smaller and mid-tier firms hire ACCA's and ACA's and if you can show that you have drive and a business commercial mind/attitude you could be hired by them. They would then pay for your ACCA courses and give you decent amounts of study leave.
I am sure you know that it is a tough market and competition for places at the mid and large firms is high. We (a mid-tier firm in London) hire graduates each year (about 10-12 for ACA and 5-6 for ACCA) and for that we must get several hundred applications. These are short listed to about 50 first interviews with managers and then about 20-25 for second interviews with partners.
Good luck, if you are determined and put in the hours studying you will make it.
FeatherZ said:
You can't even practice with an acca unless you become chartered (self employed I mean - even MAAT gives more scope), my uncle is a chartered accountant who went on to do bigger and better things yet I have spoken to him since I was a nipper, I see being chartered as being successful and thats what I'm doing it for.
HiJust to clarify ACCA is "Chartered". i.e.
ACA = Chartered Accountant (member of ICAEW, ICAS, or ICAI)
CIMA = Chartered Management Accountant (member of CIMA)
ACCA = Chartered Certified Accountant (member of ACCA)
CIPFA = Chartered Public Finance Accountant (member of CIPFA)
These are the 6 Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies (CCAB) and, in theory they are all equivalent in stature. The main difference being their areas of specialism.
If you want to specialise in Tax you need to be either ACA or ACCA qualified and then hold a practising certificate. You cannot be a registered auditor with CIMA or CIPFA.
Edited by Countdown on Sunday 22 January 17:46
I'm getting confused I could do aat-aca fast track (need to be working in practice for 2 years?) Acca again become qualified but need experience again for 2 years to become chartered? Aat-maat qualified as aat then maat after a year in practice but then not chartered?
At moment I'm think get my degree, do aat and hope that gets me a trainee role with mid tier? If thats a bad idea tell me what I need to do and I will do it.
At moment I'm think get my degree, do aat and hope that gets me a trainee role with mid tier? If thats a bad idea tell me what I need to do and I will do it.
Edited by FeatherZ on Sunday 22 January 18:09
FeatherZ said:
I'm getting confused I could do aat-aca fast track (need to be working in practice for 2 years?) Acca again become qualified but need experience again for 2 years to become chartered? Aat-maat qualified as aat then maat after a year in practice but then not chartered?
At moment I'm think get my degree, do aat and hope that gets me a trainee role with mid tier? If thats a bad idea tell me what I need to do and I will do it.
When you complete your exams for ACA or ACCA you will become aa "Passed Finalist". To obtain the full ACCA qualification you would need to have various "competencies" signed off by a qualified Accountant. This confirms that you have the practical experiemce to go alongside the technical knowledge. Then in order to obtain your "Practice" certificate you need to spend a certain amount of time working in Practice.At moment I'm think get my degree, do aat and hope that gets me a trainee role with mid tier? If thats a bad idea tell me what I need to do and I will do it.
Edited by FeatherZ on Sunday 22 January 18:09
To sum up the stages are as follows
Passed Finalist - completed all exams, practical experience not yet complete
Qualified - as above plus a certain amount of practical experience
Qualified plus Practising Cert (either in Tax or Audit) - minimum 2 years PQE in the relevant area
AAT is not "Chartered". Its like comparing A-Levels to a Degree.
There are too many qualifications in accountancy, but gaining any of the chartered qualifications will stand you well.
CIMA - aimed at commerce, but also not for profits, government etc. Can relatively (to ACCA/ACA) easily get a practicing certificate to work for your self. AAT gives exemption to the first 5 exams. Can enter as a mature student with little qualifications
ACCA - as CIMA, but a larger slant on the technical & taxation matters. Difficult to get a practicing certificate (a lot of MAATs + ACCAs use their AAT membership to go self employed as it's easier). Can enter as a mature student with little qualifications. AAT gives exemption to the first 3 exams.
ACA - probably the most traditional qualification - go to uni, get in a firm, they sponsor ACA. Associated with practice work, but like the others above you can use it anywhere. Need a training contract and a degree (degree is at the firms request to get a job).
CIPFA - Government finance, put again it can be used anywhere, but probably less portable than the above quals - a guy in my not for profit has it.
MAAT - lower level than the above, but teaches everything you would need to know to be an accountant looking after small businesses or working as something like a management accountant in industry. You can use it to work for your self.
There are others as well - AIA, IFA etc. but they are less well known than the above.
Edit to add - some accountants hold NO qualifications at all. That's across the whole spectrum - practice, industry. Qualified by Experience. Disadvantage is it's probably difficult to move cross sector as your experience relates to a specific area.
CIMA - aimed at commerce, but also not for profits, government etc. Can relatively (to ACCA/ACA) easily get a practicing certificate to work for your self. AAT gives exemption to the first 5 exams. Can enter as a mature student with little qualifications
ACCA - as CIMA, but a larger slant on the technical & taxation matters. Difficult to get a practicing certificate (a lot of MAATs + ACCAs use their AAT membership to go self employed as it's easier). Can enter as a mature student with little qualifications. AAT gives exemption to the first 3 exams.
ACA - probably the most traditional qualification - go to uni, get in a firm, they sponsor ACA. Associated with practice work, but like the others above you can use it anywhere. Need a training contract and a degree (degree is at the firms request to get a job).
CIPFA - Government finance, put again it can be used anywhere, but probably less portable than the above quals - a guy in my not for profit has it.
MAAT - lower level than the above, but teaches everything you would need to know to be an accountant looking after small businesses or working as something like a management accountant in industry. You can use it to work for your self.
There are others as well - AIA, IFA etc. but they are less well known than the above.
Edit to add - some accountants hold NO qualifications at all. That's across the whole spectrum - practice, industry. Qualified by Experience. Disadvantage is it's probably difficult to move cross sector as your experience relates to a specific area.
Edited by masteryoda on Sunday 22 January 20:30
FeatherZ said:
Aat - aca fast track worth it?
It is, but I think you'll be limiting your chances in finding an an employment opportunity as you'll need to find someone to train you whilst you do the AAT (to get the qualification, just passing the exams won't be enough - you need 1yrs practical).If I were you I'd start with ACCA/CIMA from the certificate/fundamental levels and work your way up. I think you'll find it easier to get a job that will fund you and you don't have to waste time doing the AAT. I'd chose ACCA if you want to work in practice (not many CIMA accountants work in practice).
It is of course dependent on the opportunity you find - if someone employs you to study AAT then go for it and try and do the ACA fast track. If you find some where like I have who will let you chose which chartered qualification, then go for ACCA/CIMA or even ACA if they are able to offer a training contract.
You could do a degree and then jump straight into ACCA, at a firm. ACCA gives you the option of moving into industry or staying in practice. Doing AAT is fine if you wish to stop there. If you want to go "all the way" AAT may slow you down and take longer overall.
Do you fancy being an accountant in a company (industry) or a practicing one in a firm? I appreciate it may be too early to know. If you don't know yet, ACCA is a good bet.
A practicing certificate to become a "registered auditor" is hardest with ACCA, but if you have trained in audit it should be no problem. Under ACCA you can also (more easily) get a general practicing certificate where you can act as an "accountant", but cannot act as an auditor.
[I am biased though, as an ACCA]
Do you fancy being an accountant in a company (industry) or a practicing one in a firm? I appreciate it may be too early to know. If you don't know yet, ACCA is a good bet.
A practicing certificate to become a "registered auditor" is hardest with ACCA, but if you have trained in audit it should be no problem. Under ACCA you can also (more easily) get a general practicing certificate where you can act as an "accountant", but cannot act as an auditor.
[I am biased though, as an ACCA]
Having the degree is good, but AAT and ACA/ CIMA/ ACCA are designed specifically for people wanting to be accountants, so you're sure to get all the specific knowledge that you need.
I left school 2 years ago and am now doing AAT (which, in my opinion, is easy. Although other people in my group aren't picking it up so quick so it does depend on the person). When I get to level 3/4 and if I'm still finding it quite easy I'm going to redo my Maths GCSE/ learn what I didn't know back then and do an undergraduate degree in Statistics and Economics. But my main goal is AAT then ACA.
I left school 2 years ago and am now doing AAT (which, in my opinion, is easy. Although other people in my group aren't picking it up so quick so it does depend on the person). When I get to level 3/4 and if I'm still finding it quite easy I'm going to redo my Maths GCSE/ learn what I didn't know back then and do an undergraduate degree in Statistics and Economics. But my main goal is AAT then ACA.
Just an update for those that gave advice (thanks), I just payed my student membership to AAT (£116) and also payed for first module with Kaplan (distance learning package), going to do this course over the next couple of years, it gives me 160 UCAS points, shows I'm interested in accountancy when I started my (non accountancy) degree.
Today I also contacted the local college and they do an evening English GCSE (I originally got DD at school) so I have applied for that, also been looking online and I am now signing up for 2 A-levels to go with it, will give me all the UCAS points I need to apply as a graduate (for when I graduate with the OU).
Its a lot of work, but I can't wait to get started!
Today I also contacted the local college and they do an evening English GCSE (I originally got DD at school) so I have applied for that, also been looking online and I am now signing up for 2 A-levels to go with it, will give me all the UCAS points I need to apply as a graduate (for when I graduate with the OU).
Its a lot of work, but I can't wait to get started!
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