My degree educated daughter finding it impossible

[iphonedyou]

DoubleSix said:

Hmmm some mistakes being made here. By working in bars and going on the books of agencies she is aligning herself with all the others and not doing herself any favours. I get loads of CVs of applicants who think this shows a will to work but to me it shows a lack of initiative and ability to accurately value oneself - sorry.

She needs to be more proactive (not hand the task to someone else!), resist the temptation to tarnish her cv with bar or callcenter work - a good candidate wouldn't dream of it.

Do some research about local sme's if she cant compete on the big graduate schemes. Write directly to local employers denonstrating knowledge of what they do and how she can add value. "please help me" is not good enough, i want to know what an employee can bring to the table. I fear her chosen subject is not as desirable as she/you may think but none the less there ARE jobs out there for those with the tenacity and get up and go to market themselves in a job specific manner.

There's a lot wrong, here. Working in a bar while searching for a good graduate job is no more undesirable than it is, very likely, a financial necessity. You'd likely be the first person I've ever known in a position to employ others that would prefer your staff be unemployed (rather than working in a callcentre) prior to applying for a job with yourself. I very much see the benefit in relevant experience, but to suggest unemployment over any employment seems chronically myopic.

As for graduate schemes; she doesn't appear to have tried them yet, but that would be my suggestion, OP. Be aware, though, that they're a massive time suck. I applied for 12 - very few got back to me, and from initial contact to employment, my new employer was a 6 month process with a number of (ultimately reimbursable) expenses incurred.

A 2.1 is generally the barrier to entry, and a lot of grad schemes are happy with ANY degree, as it's the scheme that's important, rather than the degree.

The benefit of a grad scheme is that, if your daughter really is bright, the fairly intense process really sorts the wheat from the chaff. I'm firmly of the belief it allows the brighter candidates to shine, and in all honesty, I wasn't particularly impressed with my competition at final assessment. I'd recommend trying that, even if only concurrently with her other job finding efforts. They start opening in October, generally.

Edited by iphonedyou on Wednesday 29th August 10:29

[DoubleSix]

iphonedyou said:

There's a lot wrong, here. Working in a bar while searching for a good graduate job is no more undesirable than it is, very likely, a financial necessity. You'd likely be the first person I've ever known in a position to employ others that would prefer your staff be unemployed (rather than working in a callcentre) prior to applying for a job with yourself. I very much see the benefit in relevant experience, but to suggest unemployment over any employment seems chronically myopic.

As for graduate schemes; she doesn't appear to have tried them yet, but that would be my suggestion, OP. Be aware, though, that they're a massive time suck. I applied for 12 - very few got back to me, and from initial contact to employment, my new employer was a 6 month process with a number of (ultimately reimbursable) expenses incurred.

A 2.1 is generally the barrier to entry, and a lot of grad schemes are happy with ANY degree, as it's the scheme that's important, rather than the degree.

Where exactly did I suggest unemployment above employment?

I speak as an active employer in financial services. Your position is?

[Gargamel]

OP - I PM'd you

However reading it back I stupidly didn't mention that I want a copy of the CV.

My email address is on the PM - feel free to check me on linked in - I am a recruiter for a larger FMCG business. I'd be happy to take a look.

[Munter]

DoubleSix said:

Where exactly did I suggest unemployment above employment?

I speak as an active employer in financial services. Your position is?

I believe it was the bit where you said "resist the temptation to tarnish her cv with bar or callcenter work".

So if not putting it on the CV, there will be a big gap that essentially says "unemployed since uni". Shirly you can't be suggesting that. So could you clarify what you do mean?

[iphonedyou]

DoubleSix said:

Where exactly did I suggest unemployment above employment?

I speak as an active employer in financial services. Your position is?

Well I'm not the first person to take the below quoted as meaning exactly that.

DoubleSix said:

She needs to be more proactive (not hand the task to someone else!), resist the temptation to tarnish her cv with bar or callcenter work - a good candidate wouldn't dream of it.

OP has stated she's applied for many jobs, including those relevant to her position, and actively 'networks'. If none of those are available, and she shouldn't take on barwork / call centre type roles, the short term option is very likely unemployment, surely.


Anyway, I was previously an Air Traffic Controller, but now a Commerical Manager. Though the relevance is questionable - your own opinions are your own, not necessarily those of employers everywhere - and I've no idea what an 'inactive employer' would be. You nosy so-and-so!

Edited by iphonedyou on Wednesday 29th August 11:13

[DoubleSix]

Iphonedyou, the ability to read and accurately interpret written information is also something I prize highly in a candidate.

You interpreted my point incorrectly as there is ALWAYS an alternative to barwork although some do not realise this and sell themselves short. Which was my point.

An 'inactive' employer would be one who is not actively recruiting at the present time. I am currently recruiting so consider myself to be 'active' at present.

Dont bother send to me your cv though...

[iphonedyou]

DoubleSix said:

Iphonedyou, the ability to read and accurately interpret written information is also something I prize highly in a candidate.

Dont bother send to me your cv though...

That's unfortunate. I was looking forward to discussing irony at interview.



OP, is your daughter willing to move at all? Obviously if she's still at home that would be salary dependent, but it could help if she doesn't rule the idea out altogether.

Edited by iphonedyou on Wednesday 29th August 11:25

[BJG1]

DoubleSix said:

Iphonedyou, the ability to read and accurately interpret written information is also something I prize highly in a candidate.

Funny, the ability to convey meaning in an accurate and unambiguous manner through written communication is something I value highly in a candidate.

[JQ]

DoubleSix said:

Iphonedyou, the ability to read and accurately interpret written information is also something I prize highly in a candidate.

You interpreted my point incorrectly as there is ALWAYS an alternative to barwork although some do not realise this and sell themselves short. Which was my point.

An 'inactive' employer would be one who is not actively recruiting at the present time. I am currently recruiting so consider myself to be 'active' at present.

Dont bother send to me your cv though...

Perhaps, it's your inability to express yourself correctly in the written word which falls short in this instance. I certainly interpreted your comments as others have and found your post quite odd.

OP - I'm a partner of a global consultancy business and of the people taken on that have not been part of the graduate scheme the vast majority have done some form of work experience or intership in the office prior to a job offer.

[DoubleSix]

Im batting this out on an iphone with a cracked screen so i make no apologies for the short hand nature if my post. It was free advice from someone who receives a lot of applications, take it or leave it...

[mnk303]

[quote=iphonedyou]

OP, is your daughter willing to move at all? Obviously if she's still at home that would be salary dependent, but it could help if she doesn't rule the idea out altogether.

quote]

Yes of course for the right position,

[iphonedyou]

mnk303 said:

Yes of course for the right position,

OK, thanks for that. I was just making sure as it really, really makes the job search much easier. Absolutely right to qualify with 'for the right job', as there's little worse than moving away for a crap role.

[Happy82]

With her bar work, is it for a large brewery? The only reason I ask is that a friend of mine completed a degree and applied in-house (M&B) for a head office job in recruitment / training. Could this be a possible route for her?

[mnk303]

Thank you everyone been some fantastic advice , she is at least able to stand outside the box and see some issues with her cv.

Edited by mnk303 on Thursday 30th August 01:48

[Gargamel]

Sorry if the advice was a little on the brutal side.

The next few weeks are a good time to look as inevitably one or two grads won't arrive for their wok schemes, so she may get a break.

[oldcynic]

Gargamel said:

The next few weeks are a good time to look as inevitably one or two grads won't arrive for their wok schemes, so she may get a break.

So you're suggesting she goes from bar work to a chinese takeaway?

[patmahe]

Do you or anyone you know, know someone in her chosen field or a similar one? In my experience most jobs come about from seeking advice from those in the know and networking face to face if possible rather than online. Its easy to ignore e-mails/letters. Best of luck to your daughter.

[oldcynic]

mnk303 said:

Thank you everyone been some fantastic advice , she is at least able to stand outside the box and see some issues with he cv.

I've had some interesting and frank conversations with agencies when I've followed up on a CV and asked what I should be doing to get it noticed - conversations where I'm not begging to be reconsidered but honestly asking for advice.

I've also tried varying my CV from one day / week to the next to see whether the response varies. This obviously requires your daughter to keep track of who got which edition of the CV. Make it longer, shorter, more jovial, more serious. What has she got to lose?

[New POD]

mnk303 said:

a degree in psychology is finding it impossible to get a paid job

Okay, just some ideas.

My wife volenteers for the CAB once a week, and they recently asked her if she'd like to consider training as a debt advisor, and take paid employment. (She declined).

If she could help out a mental health charity, like MIND or the Samaritans, or even the stoke association, or offer services to churches to help with bearivment counselling.

If I understand it the link between mental health and debt is massive, so maybe she could find a niche

What about Prison Visiting? Or Hospital visiting ?

All these would have a major impact on the CV, if she did 3 days a week for 3 different organisations she'd still have time to apply for paid jobs, and have some bloody worthwhile references.

My niece is in the middle of a social work degree, and has already had job offers on the back of her placements and volenteer work.

[Gargamel]

oldcynic said:

o you're suggesting she goes from bar work to a chinese takeaway?

Hey don't knock it, worldwide it employees over a billionity people and let's face it they can't all be wong.

















Ithangyew