My degree educated daughter finding it impossible
Discussion
New POD said:
Okay, just some ideas.
My wife volenteers for the CAB once a week, and they recently asked her if she'd like to consider training as a debt advisor, and take paid employment. (She declined).
If she could help out a mental health charity, like MIND or the Samaritans, or even the stoke association, or offer services to churches to help with bearivment counselling.
If I understand it the link between mental health and debt is massive, so maybe she could find a niche
What about Prison Visiting? Or Hospital visiting ?
All these would have a major impact on the CV, if she did 3 days a week for 3 different organisations she'd still have time to apply for paid jobs, and have some bloody worthwhile references.
My niece is in the middle of a social work degree, and has already had job offers on the back of her placements and volenteer work.
I'd suggest something like this. Nothing opens doors like being inside the place where there may be an opportunity, and managers of groups that work with people talk to each other and if she shines will get great references. My wife volenteers for the CAB once a week, and they recently asked her if she'd like to consider training as a debt advisor, and take paid employment. (She declined).
If she could help out a mental health charity, like MIND or the Samaritans, or even the stoke association, or offer services to churches to help with bearivment counselling.
If I understand it the link between mental health and debt is massive, so maybe she could find a niche
What about Prison Visiting? Or Hospital visiting ?
All these would have a major impact on the CV, if she did 3 days a week for 3 different organisations she'd still have time to apply for paid jobs, and have some bloody worthwhile references.
My niece is in the middle of a social work degree, and has already had job offers on the back of her placements and volenteer work.
There are countless places she could volunteer her time and build her CV.
STW2010 said:
mnk303 said:
All she keeps getting offered is telesales in recruitment , and the opportunity to go back and do a masters or a PhD, which is really last resort.
I pick on this part of your post, as this is the route that I did take. I didn't do Psychology though, I did Chemistry. I approached the end of my undergraduate degree and went looking for work, and found that the job market was very poor from a financial point of view (very poorly paid)- there was a few jobs at the time though. I started a job but quickly found that the bottom level work was not engaging enough, so I went back to do an MSc. I really enjoyed the research project, so then found a PhD opportunity. PhDs are mostly fully funded, so your daughter would be paid whilst doing it.I'd echo this. I started with a 2:1 in BSc. Geography from Leeds (good Russell Group uni), but didn't find anything. An MSc. in a more detailed area followed and ultimately combined the two in my PhD. I then found I could open doors to Civil Engineering consultancies that would have been closed to a 'normal' geographer. I worked in a consultancy for 6 years and have recently moved to the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (the Scottish version of the Environment Agency) and am relishing it and the experience I've brought with me.
The moral is that if she's not having the success with the current market and her existing skillset (however expert it may be), she should consider refinging and enhancing it while the economy is in the doldrums. Hell, she may even enjoy the Masters or PhD environment.
I would also advocate mnk303's route into academia; my wife (who I met during my BSc) also did an MSc, and a PhD and is now a Senior Lecturer in a 'profitable' university.
Stick with it, but consider a slightly different tack.
Dr Rick
This whole scenario is why I didnt do a degree and instead did a Btec Nat Dip. in engineering then formed my own company - learning how businesse work ropes from scratch as I went.
I would def. suggest some voluntary work as (to me) this shows the right attitude and means that the candidate should be able to demonstrate "on the job" experience and knowledge.
I would def. suggest some voluntary work as (to me) this shows the right attitude and means that the candidate should be able to demonstrate "on the job" experience and knowledge.
Thank you, your comments and support is helpful and she is reading them, a little update for you all,
She has taken on board that a cv with a photo does not help especially if you are very attractive as she is.
She has visited about 20 temp agencies in Sussex and Surrey with sadly no jobs, ( or they don't for her skill set)
She has removed much of the bar and restaurant work experience and added more office short term non paid work she has done.
She has applied for some temp police work ( a bit like a paid interm)
Some of you have pm me and I have passed on this to her and she is responding to your comments on her cv, thank you.
Sadly it's still a very grinding up hill task and so far being hit by negatitives all the way, rem some of these jobs take a whole day to complete just an application.
Sadly she has missed the chance of going back to do a msc or phd ( and I am not 100% sure she still wants to ) Unless no choice and it would be a years time anyway.
To pat her on the back she worked all the way through uni and managed to support herself without a loan all the way for 3 years while still getting a 2-1 , I of course paid her fees .
She is applying to do some volunteering work, but of course this has to work round applications.
I have seen her cry most days, she feels useless and very unworthy and I have to say very draining on my wife and I.
So plan tomorrow visit Brighton temp places and see if there is any office work,
The biggest problem and I am embarrassed to say is that she still does not know what she would love to do! ( and we tried to bring each of our kids up to work out a plan before they left school). I think its boiling slowly down to some form of legal, prison service, police, civil service type industry work.
However saying all this she realises she must get some office admin work to at least get life work place experience. Bar and restaurant work does your cv no good at all.
Once again thank you, she also now really understands that having a degree is no right to a job. Too many youngsters think it is !
She has taken on board that a cv with a photo does not help especially if you are very attractive as she is.
She has visited about 20 temp agencies in Sussex and Surrey with sadly no jobs, ( or they don't for her skill set)
She has removed much of the bar and restaurant work experience and added more office short term non paid work she has done.
She has applied for some temp police work ( a bit like a paid interm)
Some of you have pm me and I have passed on this to her and she is responding to your comments on her cv, thank you.
Sadly it's still a very grinding up hill task and so far being hit by negatitives all the way, rem some of these jobs take a whole day to complete just an application.
Sadly she has missed the chance of going back to do a msc or phd ( and I am not 100% sure she still wants to ) Unless no choice and it would be a years time anyway.
To pat her on the back she worked all the way through uni and managed to support herself without a loan all the way for 3 years while still getting a 2-1 , I of course paid her fees .
She is applying to do some volunteering work, but of course this has to work round applications.
I have seen her cry most days, she feels useless and very unworthy and I have to say very draining on my wife and I.
So plan tomorrow visit Brighton temp places and see if there is any office work,
The biggest problem and I am embarrassed to say is that she still does not know what she would love to do! ( and we tried to bring each of our kids up to work out a plan before they left school). I think its boiling slowly down to some form of legal, prison service, police, civil service type industry work.
However saying all this she realises she must get some office admin work to at least get life work place experience. Bar and restaurant work does your cv no good at all.
Once again thank you, she also now really understands that having a degree is no right to a job. Too many youngsters think it is !
Edited by mnk303 on Thursday 30th August 20:36
Best of luck to your daughter, I'm sure she'll look back on this time as a trying but ultimately temporary situation. It is unsettling to be unsure of your future but when she finds the right vocation she will know, even if it takes a few false starts.
Personally I think she's right to get out there and gain experience rather than go back into education. She can always revisit academia later but there really is no substitute for experience.
Personally I think she's right to get out there and gain experience rather than go back into education. She can always revisit academia later but there really is no substitute for experience.
[If she actually wants to work in the area]
With psychology the reality is, she needs to decide now which area she want's work in. She's got to get in touch with some practising Pyschs in the areas she's interested in and go and chat to them and find out the positives and negatives for an hour, and see whether it floats her boat.
With psychology the reality is, she needs to decide now which area she want's work in. She's got to get in touch with some practising Pyschs in the areas she's interested in and go and chat to them and find out the positives and negatives for an hour, and see whether it floats her boat.
Unfortunately, the job market is utterly screwed at the moment.
My wife has a degree and a couple of City & Guilds qualifications - but the industry in which she worked (high end furniture sales and interior design) is completely dead at the moment.
She's now working in a supermarket to help pay the bills - and there's no sign of anything better on the horizon.
So, I don't think having a basic job on a CV will do any harm at all - most employers (well, I certainly would) will see it for what it is - earning money in a tough economic environment.
My wife has a degree and a couple of City & Guilds qualifications - but the industry in which she worked (high end furniture sales and interior design) is completely dead at the moment.
She's now working in a supermarket to help pay the bills - and there's no sign of anything better on the horizon.
So, I don't think having a basic job on a CV will do any harm at all - most employers (well, I certainly would) will see it for what it is - earning money in a tough economic environment.
After leaving uni i was in a similar position to your daughter.. I had a 2.1. from the 1st ranked uni for my course, however wanted to do something un related. I applied for hundreds of city grad schemes etc.. but without:
a good degree from a top 10 uni.
over 340 UCAS points..
I was pretty screwed
I got an unpaid internship from a contact, which turned into a full time position. I am now doing an MSc part time.
Stick at it and don't be afraid to do a masters in this period when the job market is f
ked.
a good degree from a top 10 uni.
over 340 UCAS points..
I was pretty screwed
I got an unpaid internship from a contact, which turned into a full time position. I am now doing an MSc part time.
Stick at it and don't be afraid to do a masters in this period when the job market is f
ked. 20 years ago having a BA or BSc was enough to get you into any job. Nowadays everyone has a Bachelors degree so to stand out above the rest you either need to combine it with work experience while you study, or go one step further and take on an MA or MSc. Just a word of warning to her though, a Masters is a LOT more work than a Bachelors, something which takes a lot of people by surprise, if her heart really isn't in it then she shouldn't force herself to take it on as she really will struggle to find the motivation.
I'd definitely look into the volunteer work, moreso than going to even more agencies. Obviously doing unpaid work when you really need the money feels like wasted hours, but if it means she gets the experience needed for a better job then she just needs to look at it as investing in herself.
That said I also wouldn't constantly push her about needing a "plan". I had no plan when I finished my BA and even less of an idea when I'd finished my MA (both in ancient history, I had been considering a PhD but my MA highlighted my abysmal skills in Greek and Latin so I decided it would be best to give the PhD a miss), I did an 18 month stint as a till monkey at Waitrose, 7 months trying to start my own business, and then 9 months working for the National Trust (paid work, although I stumbled on the advertisement while trying to find out how to volunteer with them) before I finally joined the Civil Service and moved to London.
I think my lowest point was when I'd done just over a year at Waitrose and my parents were trying to get me to pick a "proper" career path that was relevant to my degree (they covered the fees for my BA and helped with my living costs, I funded the MA myself with my savings and a Career Development Loan) and I simply couldn't tell them what I wanted to do as I really didn't know. I tried to start a business in my field (ancient history activity days for schools) but it didn't go very well, although I'm glad of the learning experience it gave me, and in the end working for the National Trust at least taught me that I quite liked the heritage sector, which then led to me now working in archives for the Civil Service. I'd still like to go to back to being self employed, and I'm working towards it now (focusing on an ancient-history-themed shop since my work experience is more related to customer service) in my free time. But it was worse feeling like I was being forced to pick something, with the fear hanging over my head that there was something "wrong" with me because I didn't have a set career path and future and some of the crying came from me feeling like my parents were horribly disappointed in me because I couldn't find anything in a museum that would interest me and didn't have the required work experience to hop in to freelance research.
What else does she like, outside of psychology? Can she combine a passion with her degree? Is there anything that her skills (analytical, attention to detail etc etc) could match a job that doesn't actually need psychology? Where is she applying, has she considered applying for jobs closer to London (it's expensive to live here but in some cases there may be more employment opportunities and she doesn't need to actually move to the city before she gets a job).
Good luck!
I'd definitely look into the volunteer work, moreso than going to even more agencies. Obviously doing unpaid work when you really need the money feels like wasted hours, but if it means she gets the experience needed for a better job then she just needs to look at it as investing in herself.
That said I also wouldn't constantly push her about needing a "plan". I had no plan when I finished my BA and even less of an idea when I'd finished my MA (both in ancient history, I had been considering a PhD but my MA highlighted my abysmal skills in Greek and Latin so I decided it would be best to give the PhD a miss), I did an 18 month stint as a till monkey at Waitrose, 7 months trying to start my own business, and then 9 months working for the National Trust (paid work, although I stumbled on the advertisement while trying to find out how to volunteer with them) before I finally joined the Civil Service and moved to London.
I think my lowest point was when I'd done just over a year at Waitrose and my parents were trying to get me to pick a "proper" career path that was relevant to my degree (they covered the fees for my BA and helped with my living costs, I funded the MA myself with my savings and a Career Development Loan) and I simply couldn't tell them what I wanted to do as I really didn't know. I tried to start a business in my field (ancient history activity days for schools) but it didn't go very well, although I'm glad of the learning experience it gave me, and in the end working for the National Trust at least taught me that I quite liked the heritage sector, which then led to me now working in archives for the Civil Service. I'd still like to go to back to being self employed, and I'm working towards it now (focusing on an ancient-history-themed shop since my work experience is more related to customer service) in my free time. But it was worse feeling like I was being forced to pick something, with the fear hanging over my head that there was something "wrong" with me because I didn't have a set career path and future and some of the crying came from me feeling like my parents were horribly disappointed in me because I couldn't find anything in a museum that would interest me and didn't have the required work experience to hop in to freelance research.
What else does she like, outside of psychology? Can she combine a passion with her degree? Is there anything that her skills (analytical, attention to detail etc etc) could match a job that doesn't actually need psychology? Where is she applying, has she considered applying for jobs closer to London (it's expensive to live here but in some cases there may be more employment opportunities and she doesn't need to actually move to the city before she gets a job).
Good luck!
MentalSarcasm said:
I'd definitely look into the volunteer work, moreso than going to even more agencies. Obviously doing unpaid work when you really need the money feels like wasted hours, but if it means she gets the experience needed for a better job then she just needs to look at it as investing in herself.
^^^ This!I have sent some suggestions by PM, for voluntary work and otherwise.
Edited by oldbanger on Thursday 30th August 21:25
Again thank you all, I must says it proves us car geeks are just "normal " people with the same problems of trying to be a good dad, I am just standing by her, trying to say the right things and doing the rights things and not tripping over my big mouth.
I am listening in too all the comments and not one has been incorrect,
NB:1 Just a note though for others reading this to be a Praticing Psychologist you have to have a PhD these days they moved the bar about 5 years ago and to be honest I think my daughter did this degree as it was respected as a the 4th science being a BSc
NB:2 Many of you are correct it seems now unless you have like my son a degree from one of the top 5 or 10 Uni's the degree is not that special, he got a 2-1 from Warwick in Medical Biology and that got him in to several high paid teaching jobs
I am listening in too all the comments and not one has been incorrect,
NB:1 Just a note though for others reading this to be a Praticing Psychologist you have to have a PhD these days they moved the bar about 5 years ago and to be honest I think my daughter did this degree as it was respected as a the 4th science being a BSc
NB:2 Many of you are correct it seems now unless you have like my son a degree from one of the top 5 or 10 Uni's the degree is not that special, he got a 2-1 from Warwick in Medical Biology and that got him in to several high paid teaching jobs
VSO ? Give her back a bit of self estime ?
My sister graduated in 1987 with a 3rd in AgriChem, and then did an MChem in Soil Science, and then a PHd in Soil Science, and then spent 2 years on a Overseas Church funded project in the Cameroons looking at green fertilisers.
When she came back to the UK she was unemployed for 12 months before she realised nobody really wanted she skills, and she got a temp job in admin in a university. 20 years later she is an quality and exam conformance manager in a university, paid a reasonable salary with 39 paid holidays and index linked salary based pension.
My sister graduated in 1987 with a 3rd in AgriChem, and then did an MChem in Soil Science, and then a PHd in Soil Science, and then spent 2 years on a Overseas Church funded project in the Cameroons looking at green fertilisers.
When she came back to the UK she was unemployed for 12 months before she realised nobody really wanted she skills, and she got a temp job in admin in a university. 20 years later she is an quality and exam conformance manager in a university, paid a reasonable salary with 39 paid holidays and index linked salary based pension.
Edited by New POD on Thursday 30th August 22:17
mnk303 said:
The biggest problem and I am embarrassed to say is that she still does not know what she would love to do! ( and we tried to bring each of our kids up to work out a plan before they left school).
I'm 44 and have yet to form a plan as such. However there's a lot to be said for at least setting some short term targets - as in pick a vocation / job and go after it big time for a while.You may however be right to require a plan - I finally achieved my first ever full-time permanent job last September - one year anniversary next week. It's lovely going on holiday and not fretting about the loss of earnings. I'm even considering a pension plan!
If she doesn't know what she wants to do then that's not a problem. But if she casts her net too wide she'll catch nothing.
This is what put me off going to university. Even with a degree, all the employer's want experience. I've resorted to working for Mcdonald's. When you get that desperate for work you'll do anything to get off jobseekers. I just wish more people my age (21) Had a similar work ethic to me. Fair enough I'm shoveling st at the moment, but it's a start. £175-200 a week is better than £53 or whatever it is on JSA a week...
t at the moment, but it's a start. £175-200 a week is better than £53 or whatever it is on JSA a week...It may be hard to get on the ladder and a degree may leave you with "debt" and I put it in quotes because to all intense and purposes it's a minor direct debit that you pay monthly and if the job market is slow you don't pay anyway. It gets you a leg up, starting your own business is fine but not always plausible some things need the backing of a multinational or a reputation. I personally want my Professionals to be degree qualified at the minimum, Engineers, Doctors, Solicitors Teachers etc,
chrissull said:
This is what put me off going to university. Even with a degree, all the employer's want experience. I've resorted to working for Mcdonald's. When you get that desperate for work you'll do anything to get off jobseekers. I just wish more people my age (21) Had a similar work ethic to me. Fair enough I'm shoveling st at the moment, but it's a start. £175-200 a week is better than £53 or whatever it is on JSA a week...
With all due respect... I think you'd have been far better off going to uni to do a bad degree than spending your time mopping up piss or asking if you want fries with that.t at the moment, but it's a start. £175-200 a week is better than £53 or whatever it is on JSA a week...A degree at least somewhat shows intelligence and will open some doors to you... if anything a McDonalds job will do the opposite.
icetea said:
With all due respect... I think you'd have been far better off going to uni to do a bad degree than spending your time mopping up piss or asking if you want fries with that.
A degree at least somewhat shows intelligence and will open some doors to you... if anything a McDonalds job will do the opposite.
Sorry, but that just isn't true.A degree at least somewhat shows intelligence and will open some doors to you... if anything a McDonalds job will do the opposite.
lazygraduand said:
Sorry, but that just isn't true.
I will be very surprised if you can find anyone involved in hiring staff that would say they value a McJob more than a degree, unless the position being hired for is another fast food one (where the job experience would be relevant).Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff