My degree educated daughter finding it impossible

[0000]

Or if the degree is in David Beckham studies.

[Sir Bagalot]

s1rallyemark said:

It took my Brother a year to get a job after graduating and that's with a 1st in Maths from Cardiff. He pretty much spent 5 hours a day applying for jobs but got there in the end, makes me kind of glad I started work after A-Levels have so much more experience and a job but i know thats not for everyone.

Exactly my thoughts.

I'm quite firmly of the opinion that 85-95% of the people going to Uni really shouldn't bother as it's merely seen as a get out of not getting a job for another 3 years.

[HeatonNorris]

Sir Bagalot said:

Exactly my thoughts.

I'm quite firmly of the opinion that 85-95% of the people going to Uni really shouldn't bother as it's merely seen as a get out of not getting a job for another 3 years.

To be fair, that's largely the fault of successive governments, who have encouraged teenagers to go to University to keep them off the dole figures.

[Munter]

HeatonNorris said:

To be fair, that's largely the fault of successive governments, who have encouraged teenagers to go to University to keep them off the dole figures.

Personally I'd like to see every degree graded on the number of graduates in full time "graduate level" employment after 12 months.

We probably already have the stats based on loan repayments starting. It'd just need pulling together.

Then you'd be able to look at a psychology degree and compare it with biology, or sociology etc and see what chance you'll be employed after.

[iphonedyou]

Munter said:

Personally I'd like to see every degree graded on the number of graduates in full time "graduate level" employment after 12 months.

We probably already have the stats based on loan repayments starting. It'd just need pulling together.

Then you'd be able to look at a psychology degree and compare it with biology, or sociology etc and see what chance you'll be employed after.

Those statistics are already available from many individual universities on request. Which is probably actually more useful, I suppose, since employment rates for the same course will differ between universities.

They'll not be bullet proof, I suppose, since not everyone informs their university when asked. But then, student loan repayments don't necessarily indicate employment anyway - if you go abroad, for example, it's incumbant on you to provide SLC with details of your employment.

[iphonedyou]

lazygraduand said:

Sorry, but that just isn't true.

An apt name, there!

Aren't you going to London for a finance grad scheme, though? Would have been difficult with just McDonalds experience, surely.

For the majority of people, degree > McDonalds, if for no other reason than it enables them to pass arbitrary filters upon application.

[Munter]

iphonedyou said:

Those statistics are already available from many individual universities on request. Which is probably actually more useful, I suppose, since employment rates for the same course will differ between universities.

They'll not be bullet proof, I suppose, since not everyone informs their university when asked. But then, student loan repayments don't necessarily indicate employment anyway - if you go abroad, for example, it's incumbant on you to provide SLC with details of your employment.

You know the "Big UCAS Book of courses". That was where I was thinking they should be. Not across subjects in the UK. But against the specific course you'd pick from the book. If it was there as a stat against the course you'd hope students would realise it's there for a reason. There will be anomalies as you say, but I'd think the vast majority of students stay in the UK and are either paying back or not.

I just don't remember any indication about employment stats when choosing a course at college. You can only go to so many open days and ask the question. (Which I found tended to turn the attitude from friendly to "we don't want your sort")

[jr502]

Munter said:

You know the "Big UCAS Book of courses". That was where I was thinking they should be. Not across subjects in the UK. But against the specific course you'd pick from the book. If it was there as a stat against the course you'd hope students would realise it's there for a reason. There will be anomalies as you say, but I'd think the vast majority of students stay in the UK and are either paying back or not.

I just don't remember any indication about employment stats when choosing a course at college. You can only go to so many open days and ask the question. (Which I found tended to turn the attitude from friendly to "we don't want your sort")

One problem is though, is that teachers at schools tell pupils "this subject is great because it has transferable skills, and with a degree in XYZ you can go into anything etc etc", when in reality it's rubbish.

[Odie]

Degree's imho are a pointless waste of money.

She needs to start at the bottom and work her way up.

Show initiative, if she doesnt have a job at all she needs to do charity work or something perhaps run a project for them or find a need within the charity and do something about it.

Valuable experience = everything

Edited by Odie on Tuesday 4th September 14:18

[Odie]

doogz said:

Haven't you just posted in your own thread:

"My fears are -

I have no formal training in and no actual experience in the position I want, ive just done it."

A degree is formal training, and for many jobs, it's a requirement. How many Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Dentists, etc just 'learn on the job'?

I have a degree in engineering, im not doing an engineering role..

As always the exceptions make the rule

[Hoofy]

Odie said:

doogz said:

Haven't you just posted in your own thread:

"My fears are -

I have no formal training in and no actual experience in the position I want, ive just done it."

A degree is formal training, and for many jobs, it's a requirement. How many Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Dentists, etc just 'learn on the job'?

I have a degree in engineering, im not doing an engineering role..

As always the exceptions make the rule

Suspect there are more people doing jobs completely unrelated to their degrees.

As an aside, I knew someone who thought he could work his way up in a hospital so got a job as a porter.

[Sir Bagalot]

HeatonNorris said:

Sir Bagalot said:

Exactly my thoughts.

I'm quite firmly of the opinion that 85-95% of the people going to Uni really shouldn't bother as it's merely seen as a get out of not getting a job for another 3 years.

To be fair, that's largely the fault of successive governments, who have encouraged teenagers to go to University to keep them off the dole figures.

Maybe so. But it's also the fault of those naive teenagers and their Parents.

[Slurms]

Munter said:

iphonedyou said:

Those statistics are already available from many individual universities on request. Which is probably actually more useful, I suppose, since employment rates for the same course will differ between universities.

They'll not be bullet proof, I suppose, since not everyone informs their university when asked. But then, student loan repayments don't necessarily indicate employment anyway - if you go abroad, for example, it's incumbant on you to provide SLC with details of your employment.

You know the "Big UCAS Book of courses". That was where I was thinking they should be. Not across subjects in the UK. But against the specific course you'd pick from the book. If it was there as a stat against the course you'd hope students would realise it's there for a reason. There will be anomalies as you say, but I'd think the vast majority of students stay in the UK and are either paying back or not.

I just don't remember any indication about employment stats when choosing a course at college. You can only go to so many open days and ask the question. (Which I found tended to turn the attitude from friendly to "we don't want your sort")

Well I can think of one uni course where I have a reasonable idea about what happened to a couple of the guys......

[Fergie87]

Op,
If she is interested in the Legal Sector or Civil Service the links on this site are very useful.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/jobs

Well worth a look.

Fergie

[Condi]

Sir Bagalot said:

Maybe so. But it's also the fault of those naive teenagers and their Parents.

Or maybe its the fault of the employers who wont consider people unless they have a degree?

The entry points for people without degrees are few and far between for a lot of jobs, and once you are in the job then moving upwards you're always going to be competing with people with degrees.

[lazygraduand]

iphonedyou said:

An apt name, there!

Aren't you going to London for a finance grad scheme, though? Would have been difficult with just McDonalds experience, surely.

For the majority of people, degree > McDonalds, if for no other reason than it enables them to pass arbitrary filters upon application.

Haha, need to change that username seeing as I'm a fully fledged graduate now!

Thing is, I got my job because I was at a top university, had good work experience and generally worked pretty hard. Plus some luck

While I can see your point, I think that as was said originally, "a crappy degree from a crap university would be better than working at McDonalds"(or similar). Still not sure I agree. Of course, if said person is bent on getting onto a graduate scheme then of course they need to do a degree. But my point is that I believe that they will get further in most jobs with that sort of work experience found at McDonalds or equivalent than a degree that's worth less than the paper its written on!

[steedy27]

As previously expressed in this thread its all about Experience, Experience, Experience, I did my degree with a sandwich year and I was offered three positions after university(not that im bragging or anything ).

[RevHappy]

mnk303 said:

She is applying to do some volunteering work, but of course this has to work round applications.

I have seen her cry most days, she feels useless and very unworthy and I have to say very draining on my wife and I.
So plan tomorrow visit Brighton temp places and see if there is any office work,

The biggest problem and I am embarrassed to say is that she still does not know what she would love to do! ( and we tried to bring each of our kids up to work out a plan before they left school). I think its boiling slowly down to some form of legal, prison service, police, civil service type industry work.

However saying all this she realises she must get some office admin work to at least get life work place experience. Bar and restaurant work does your cv no good at all.

Once again thank you, she also now really understands that having a degree is no right to a job. Too many youngsters think it is !

Hi Martin,

Volunteering is all well and good but don’t do if it impedes flexibility, but it may make for a great distraction and refocus. It’s easy to get down hearted and wonder what the point of it all was, better to take six months finding the right job than set off in the wrong direction.
Not knowing what you want to do afflicts some more than others and is often seen in the education path chosen; more open subjects give more possibilities but don’t go deeper enough to be instantly transferable to the workplace. There’s also a big difference between knowing what you’d like to do and what you’re actually good at.

She should use this downtime to really work out what she wants to do; it’s a rare stage of life that shouldn’t be rushed. Use it to get out there, meet people, hand delivery of a CV and covering letter isn’t a bad idea, you never know who you might bump into.

In the last decade a degree allowed you to apply for a job, that’s about it. Summer is an awful time to find a real job, too many people in the chain are away or distracted by kids away from school. Hopefully there will be better times ahead.

Wish her good luck.

Stuart

[Tumbler]

Has she tried drawing a diagram with her degree in the middle and then branching off all the different careers that are possible?

She can then highlight the ones which appeal the most, and look for vacancies.

She may even wish to choose a certain section of society she would prefer to work with, so for example, children, the elderly or maybe those returning from war.

At this stage in her life I think it may be important for her to realise, that she may not pick the career path that is right for her the first time, but it is probably important to start trying to find which she prefers.

[mnk303]

Odie said:

Degree's imho are a pointless waste of money.

She needs to start at the bottom and work her way up.

Show initiative, if she doesnt have a job at all she needs to do charity work or something perhaps run a project for them or find a need within the charity and do something about it.

Valuable experience = everything

Edited by Odie on Tuesday 4th September 14:18

Ok let me answer this as its a statement is without knowledge , my god boys ask before you make a statement please!

1 she has worked from tha age of 15 in bars! Cafes and restaurants, or cleaning
2 she never asks for money from her parents
3 she buys her owns cars and all but her bed at the family home she pays for,
4 she cleans the toilets at the local restaurant where she works and don't moan,
5 she works at present in Aldershot as a temp travels 60 mie round trip leave at 6.45 get home at 18.00 then goes to her evening work at 19.00 till 23.30

I think if anyone is willing to work from the bottom she is the one .

She has now been offered some term work in two big businesses " at the bottom of the food chain with a possibility of maybe a full time job if she shows the right attitude"

So bottom line she knows where the bottom is, she is at it!