My degree educated daughter finding it impossible
Discussion
My daughter like many I am sure who is nearly 23 with a degree in psychology (2-1) and who has an amazing job ethic always working in bars or restaurants to earn money to live, is finding it impossible after spending every waking hour on the web calling and networking , nothing , 160 applications, some taking 2-3 days to answer fully the application and only one reply of declining.
I really feel for her, She has even registered on temp agency books to try and find away in to a job, but again no work. She done loads of intern experience free of charge for no salary.
Ok I hear you say "what does she want to do "
Answer something, social services, law assistant, HR, admin support , prison services, police services, quite broad but working where she can meet people and have a career.
Her problem , is she has learnt having a degree s not a ticket to a job,
She thought a degree would help, but the recruiting businesses get 100's of degree applicants for even basic jobs and set recruiting filters so that even GCSE's are relevant.
All she keeps getting offered is telesales in recruitment , and the opportunity to go back and do a masters or a PhD, which is really last resort.
Any suggestions would be gratefully received. I am 53, no degree night school educated and I found in my younger days jobs were there if you had the right attitude now how do these young people do it even with the right attitude, I suppose there is just too few jobs and this recession is here for a long time.
I really feel for her, She has even registered on temp agency books to try and find away in to a job, but again no work. She done loads of intern experience free of charge for no salary.
Ok I hear you say "what does she want to do "
Answer something, social services, law assistant, HR, admin support , prison services, police services, quite broad but working where she can meet people and have a career.
Her problem , is she has learnt having a degree s not a ticket to a job,
She thought a degree would help, but the recruiting businesses get 100's of degree applicants for even basic jobs and set recruiting filters so that even GCSE's are relevant.
All she keeps getting offered is telesales in recruitment , and the opportunity to go back and do a masters or a PhD, which is really last resort.
Any suggestions would be gratefully received. I am 53, no degree night school educated and I found in my younger days jobs were there if you had the right attitude now how do these young people do it even with the right attitude, I suppose there is just too few jobs and this recession is here for a long time.
Edited by mnk303 on Wednesday 29th August 04:11
Afraid i can not help but I agree, things are hard out there. Us oldies were spoiled, being 44 now i started job hunting in the 80's with no real qualifications or experience and never once had a problem finding a job.
Now, with 25 yrs of experience in various jobs i have just spent the last four months looking for work and have just accepted a job as a Blind Fitter.
This company was the only company that even wanted to meet me!
I did get one short temp job through an agency but that was just down to strange timing where i walked into their offices just as they had put the phone down on the client. Apart from that i have just received the standard daily job lists from the agents i have signed up with. Not one phone call, or offer of work.
Even the job centre is useless these days at actually helping to get you a job, they just hassle you until you find one.
I wish your daughter the best of luck, things are tough out there, and i can't see how /when that is going to improve
Now, with 25 yrs of experience in various jobs i have just spent the last four months looking for work and have just accepted a job as a Blind Fitter.
This company was the only company that even wanted to meet me!
I did get one short temp job through an agency but that was just down to strange timing where i walked into their offices just as they had put the phone down on the client. Apart from that i have just received the standard daily job lists from the agents i have signed up with. Not one phone call, or offer of work.
Even the job centre is useless these days at actually helping to get you a job, they just hassle you until you find one.
I wish your daughter the best of luck, things are tough out there, and i can't see how /when that is going to improve
As ever, it's very difficult to encapsulate advice in a forum for such a complex issue, but the job for her is out there. There are a number of traditional and non-traditional methods that are likely to improve her job hunting outcomes and she needs to employ them all. The three most basic ones that should be in place immediately are having a quality CV, having no break in her work history and narrowing down her career choice (without a target, shots will be fired all over the place with little impact). PM me if I can be of any further assistance. Good luck!
Ross1988 said:
Maybe some postgraduate schemes?
That was going to be my suggestion. If she wants something that will have the effect she was hoping a degree would. Then it'll need to be a masters or jump to Dr.The OH has a degree in Psychology, and through a series of temp jobs eventually landed a full time position. But it was on the phones in "customer relations" (complaints to us mortals).
Unfortunately due to the billions of people with psychology degrees the universities churn out every year, it's a degree with all the value of waste paper as far as I can see. (Unless it's a stepping stone to a postgrad qualification)
Hmmm some mistakes being made here. By working in bars and going on the books of agencies she is aligning herself with all the others and not doing herself any favours. I get loads of CVs of applicants who think this shows a will to work but to me it shows a lack of initiative and ability to accurately value oneself - sorry.
She needs to be more proactive (not hand the task to someone else!), resist the temptation to tarnish her cv with bar or callcenter work - a good candidate wouldn't dream of it.
Do some research about local sme's if she cant compete on the big graduate schemes. Write directly to local employers denonstrating knowledge of what they do and how she can add value. "please help me" is not good enough, i want to know what an employee can bring to the table. I fear her chosen subject is not as desirable as she/you may think but none the less there ARE jobs out there for those with the tenacity and get up and go to market themselves in a job specific manner.
She needs to be more proactive (not hand the task to someone else!), resist the temptation to tarnish her cv with bar or callcenter work - a good candidate wouldn't dream of it.
Do some research about local sme's if she cant compete on the big graduate schemes. Write directly to local employers denonstrating knowledge of what they do and how she can add value. "please help me" is not good enough, i want to know what an employee can bring to the table. I fear her chosen subject is not as desirable as she/you may think but none the less there ARE jobs out there for those with the tenacity and get up and go to market themselves in a job specific manner.
0000 said:
160 applications doesn't sound like she's thought about what she wants to do, come to a conclusion and targeted a specific job?
If that's correct, it's just a numbers game she's playing, in which case she probably just needs to get more applications in to succeed.
Agree with the first half. It also indicates that there are plenty of opportunities out there.If that's correct, it's just a numbers game she's playing, in which case she probably just needs to get more applications in to succeed.
As an employer, someone who sends out mass-applications stands out a mile. On the whole a company has to invest a lot of money to create a worthwhile employee. If someone is obviously not interested in the specific job for the specific company then their cv will be binned in favour of someone who expresses specific interest.
I cant speak for you daughter, but I would suggest that if she has made 160 applications then she has not realistically tailored all her applications to the job.
If she has had nothing at all in 160 applications then something is definitely wrong.
I was in a similar position about 2 years ago now, finished uni and simply couldn't get myself into a proper full time job,was working pretty much full time as a projectionist at a cinema though this wasn't a career path for me, was just a part time student job that went full time after uni ended.
It took me about 500 applications for jobs over 9 months to get myself a job, out of all of those applications I only got called in for an interview 2 times and got the second job.
I would say it's down to experience,there tends to always be people out there with more experience than you so they get chosen.
Since I got myself a full time job,i've moved companies 3 times over 19 months (went from perm to contract roles) and from experience,if I hand out my CV 10 times,I'll get atleast 4 calls back, while also receiving calls from agencies as they've seen my CV on site's etc etc
Now to stop rambling, don't loose hope and just apply apply apply apply apply!! It's the same for everyone,I've got many friends in the same boat and it's what I tell them
It took me about 500 applications for jobs over 9 months to get myself a job, out of all of those applications I only got called in for an interview 2 times and got the second job.
I would say it's down to experience,there tends to always be people out there with more experience than you so they get chosen.
Since I got myself a full time job,i've moved companies 3 times over 19 months (went from perm to contract roles) and from experience,if I hand out my CV 10 times,I'll get atleast 4 calls back, while also receiving calls from agencies as they've seen my CV on site's etc etc
Now to stop rambling, don't loose hope and just apply apply apply apply apply!! It's the same for everyone,I've got many friends in the same boat and it's what I tell them
If she was 100% focused on a job relating to her degree, everyone would be criticising her for not being more open-minded...
Anyway, presumably she customises each application to suit the job and has several versions of her CV tailored to different types of work she's applying for.
As for her degree being useless, it will help. Imagine if she's applying for the same jobs with just GCSEs; she might not even get an interview (I assume she's had several interviews by now).
The problem is that while there are lots of jobs out there, there are even more young people with degrees and no experience applying for said jobs. The employer can afford to pick the one with the biggest breasts.
Edit: I notice you haven't mentioned care work. Whilst the idea of changing someone with learning disabilities who keeps filling their pants and playing with the contents isn't going to be her dream job, she might find it easier to climb through the ranks with a psychology degree. Who knows... by the time she's 30, she might be area manager of a group of care homes?
Anyway, presumably she customises each application to suit the job and has several versions of her CV tailored to different types of work she's applying for.
As for her degree being useless, it will help. Imagine if she's applying for the same jobs with just GCSEs; she might not even get an interview (I assume she's had several interviews by now).
The problem is that while there are lots of jobs out there, there are even more young people with degrees and no experience applying for said jobs. The employer can afford to pick the one with the biggest breasts.
Edit: I notice you haven't mentioned care work. Whilst the idea of changing someone with learning disabilities who keeps filling their pants and playing with the contents isn't going to be her dream job, she might find it easier to climb through the ranks with a psychology degree. Who knows... by the time she's 30, she might be area manager of a group of care homes?
Edited by Hoofy on Wednesday 29th August 09:29
Munter said:
Ross1988 said:
Maybe some postgraduate schemes?
That was going to be my suggestion. If she wants something that will have the effect she was hoping a degree would. Then it'll need to be a masters or jump to Dr.The OH has a degree in Psychology, and through a series of temp jobs eventually landed a full time position. But it was on the phones in "customer relations" (complaints to us mortals).
Unfortunately due to the billions of people with psychology degrees the universities churn out every year, it's a degree with all the value of waste paper as far as I can see. (Unless it's a stepping stone to a postgrad qualification)
Where is she based and whats she applying for, because it sounds like she's not sure what she wants to be doing. Why not look at some of the Graduate Schemes that various big companies run, people like Accenture, EY and PWC are always looking for decent graduates.
mnk303 said:
All she keeps getting offered is telesales in recruitment , and the opportunity to go back and do a masters or a PhD, which is really last resort.
I pick on this part of your post, as this is the route that I did take. I didn't do Psychology though, I did Chemistry. I approached the end of my undergraduate degree and went looking for work, and found that the job market was very poor from a financial point of view (very poorly paid)- there was a few jobs at the time though. I started a job but quickly found that the bottom level work was not engaging enough, so I went back to do an MSc. I really enjoyed the research project, so then found a PhD opportunity. PhDs are mostly fully funded, so your daughter would be paid whilst doing it.I now work in academia, and what you said here fits-
mnk303 said:
Ok I hear you say "what does she want to do "
Answer something, social services, law assistant, HR, admin support , prison services, police services, quite broad but working where she can meet people and have a career.
Answer something, social services, law assistant, HR, admin support , prison services, police services, quite broad but working where she can meet people and have a career.
My daily routine isn't far off from this. It's a very engaging and varied career, involving writing research proposals, writing articles, teaching small and large groups, designing new courses, attending conferences (in the past few years I have been to India, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Italy....) and meetings (so meeting loads of new people- all with the aim of potentially working with them).
Academia in Psychology would be quite different to mine, as this would involve even more interactions with people!
Just don't rule that option out. It's very rewarding and enjoyable (mostly). Send me a PM if you want any extra details.
There are lots of jobs for Psych grads at the moment but... A few questions:
For example, if she want's go down the Clinical or Forensic routes then for Clin she'll need to either get a job as an assitant for 3 years then apply for the ClinPsyD or if she wan't to do Forensic then it will be a minimum MSc with possible some assitant experience (not my area), or if she wants to got into more applied areas, then a MSc in Human Factors (Training, Procedures, Team working, Human Performance, Cognition, etc.) will be required.
As she stands she'll struggle to do Psych related work, except for something boring like Psych testing. But if she's got the stats skills, that's a foot in the door to a lot of industries.
- Where's the degree from? If it a good uni?
- Is it a BSc. or a BA? BAs are the poor relation.
- Did she do a lot of stats? If she did this is good, a lot of Psych grads end up in finance / banking because of their maths skills.
- Can she do pysch testing - did she get her lvl A, etc when on her degree? If she did this is good and will help find a job.
For example, if she want's go down the Clinical or Forensic routes then for Clin she'll need to either get a job as an assitant for 3 years then apply for the ClinPsyD or if she wan't to do Forensic then it will be a minimum MSc with possible some assitant experience (not my area), or if she wants to got into more applied areas, then a MSc in Human Factors (Training, Procedures, Team working, Human Performance, Cognition, etc.) will be required.
As she stands she'll struggle to do Psych related work, except for something boring like Psych testing. But if she's got the stats skills, that's a foot in the door to a lot of industries.
It took my Brother a year to get a job after graduating and that's with a 1st in Maths from Cardiff. He pretty much spent 5 hours a day applying for jobs but got there in the end, makes me kind of glad I started work after A-Levels have so much more experience and a job but i know thats not for everyone.
rhinochopig said:
There are lots of jobs for Psych grads at the moment but... A few questions:
- Where's the degree from? If it a good uni? CANTERBURY
- Is it a BSc. or a BA? BAs are the poor relation. BSC
- Did she do a lot of stats? If she did this is good, a lot of Psych grads end up in finance / banking because of their maths skills. YES SHE FOUND THAT QUITE HARD
- Can she do pysch testing - did she get her lvl A, etc when on her degree? If she did this is good and will help find a job. NOT SURE WILL CHECK
Hoofy said:
presumably she customises each application to suit the job and has several versions of her CV tailored to different types of work she's applying for.
This. It's very easy to just churn the same CV and covering letter but just change the contact details. Employers can see through this. Applying for less jobs that have been specifically researched and individually scripted will help. Quality not quantity.Has she actually picked up the phone and contacted employers in her area/field to see if they are hiring or likely to do so? Or 'just popped in'? Does she know anyone in those areas who can open doors?
mnk303 said:
...the opportunity to go back and do a masters or a PhD, which is really last resort...
I wouldn't see that as a last resort. We all know that "degrees" have been devalued by everyone and their dog having one, so I'd see a MSc or a PhD as an opportunity for some investment in herself which should pay off in future job opportunities.I came out of Uni with a 2:2 in Maths - not really good enough to open many doors, and none I wanted to walk through. So I went on and did a post-grad year in Manufacturing Engineering including a lot of project work-experience. Many doors that were previously closed (sorry, 2:1 and above only) were now open. Your daughter could differentiate herself from the crowd by having more than a Psychology degree on her CV.
mnk303 said:
rhinochopig said:
There are lots of jobs for Psych grads at the moment but... A few questions:
- Where's the degree from? If it a good uni? CANTERBURY
- Is it a BSc. or a BA? BAs are the poor relation. BSC
- Did she do a lot of stats? If she did this is good, a lot of Psych grads end up in finance / banking because of their maths skills. YES SHE FOUND THAT QUITE HARD
- Can she do pysch testing - did she get her lvl A, etc when on her degree? If she did this is good and will help find a job. NOT SURE WILL CHECK
I think she's needs to get on the phone and speak to people working in the various areas you list. She's casting her nets too wide and she needs to focuss on one area and to do that is going to take a lot of effort and more than likely additional training.
If she want's to PM me I can answer any questions she has on Clinical Psych (my OH is one) and Human Factors (my area). Is she a member of the BPS as they will probably be able to put her in touch with a mentor who will help her get started in her chosen career path; someone local to her as well.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff