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Stewart330ci

145 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
I have worked in sales and have always out performed my 'educated' colleagues. Dunno how getting lashed up for 3 years would make them better at a job i got into 3 years before them.

Donatello

1,035 posts

46 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Sorry it is slightly off topic, but as others have said, what exactly is the obsession with graduates for entry level jobs?

I don't have a degree but I have gained 5 years of work experience in customer service/sales roles and I'm only 22. Surely I would be more use to these employers than a graduate who may never have worked a day in their life?

Sorry, just something that really annoys me.

GoneAnon

1,131 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
When I was young we had an undergraduate come to us for summer work experience ahead of his honours year.
Every Monday for 6 weeks he watered the plastic plants as instructed til the water was slopping out of the top of the pot.

Seems strange to look back now and think that there are so many jobs that he would be considered for that I would be excluded from because he had a bit of paper and I only had experience(and some demonstrable success in the role).

CBR JGWRR

6,293 posts

34 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
If it pays more than 8k a year and can wait 2 years for me to finish my degree I'll take it.

I suspect the middle bit rules me out though...

Arenki

211 posts

54 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Stewart330ci said:
I have worked in sales and have always out performed my 'educated' colleagues. Dunno how getting lashed up for 3 years would make them better at a job i got into 3 years before them.
You and me both. Found out the new guy is on the best part of 4k p/a basic more than me. Same age, just has a degree. Wouldn't mind but in the 3 months he's been here he's still absolutely useless!
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blueheron

400 posts

30 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
Customer Services... Sales/Marketing..

Be honest. What is the actual job. Telesales?

Most graduates will be looking to move into a job actually relevant to their field of study. Any you do employ will likely only use you as a stopgap until they find something relevant.

Too many young people who would make decent workers, are automatically ruled out because they don't have that magic degree certificate. They're not all thick!

bunyarra

206 posts

97 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
blueheron said:
Too many young people who would make decent workers, are automatically ruled out because they don't have that magic degree certificate. They're not all thick!
You'd think that. Over the last year, and in 3-4 different vacancies, we have had 8 people not even bother to show up to an interview. Of these, all 8 were under 20. One responded that he decided not to work as he made enough unemployed to keep him happy.

And these were not min wage job with no prospects. The older applicants have, almost universally, been of a measurably higher standard all round.

As for graduates (and in my experience these last few years) I don't think the current crop are any better than those who grafted in work for the 3 years rather than did a degree. We've certainly not seem a significant difference in ability, attitude or commitment. Graduate or not, there is just a bleeding awful "rights" culture from everyone entering work. "I've a right to a job" ; "I've a right to sue you if I stub my toe", "I've a right to be paid loads even though I am utterly useless", "I've a right to not come in and you can't do anything about it" .... etc.

Case in point, some little oik has taken us to a tribunal after 3 weeks "work". We sacked him due to utter incompetence but a ambulance-chasing, snake-oil solicitor is trying to exhort ££ out us in the hope we see a payout as cheaper than the hassle of a tribunal. Even ACAS went WTF?

NormalWisdom

1,483 posts

44 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
My partner's daughter is a 2-1 graduate (history of art). She wants a career in fine art (curator or somesuch). After more than a year of volunteering at various auction houses and museums around the country (unpaid) and not securing paid work she is losing a lot of confidence. She literally will do anything - Now she is living down here with us (was originally near Chester) and working as a kitchen assistant in a school canteen getting paid c£6 an hour. She was even turned down for an interview at that school for a post as teaching assistant in the Arts department despite having glowing references from a school where she did similar voluntarily.

My fear is that continuous knock-backs really do serious damage to her and people in her position. Confidence is eroded and feelings of low-self worth start and grow.

She really will do (and is very capable of) anything but confidence is now a factor and I don't know how you fix that....

jamieduff1981

3,771 posts

25 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
We must be living in a bubble here because we’re always looking for graduates and experienced professionals. Those without degrees are basically useless to us because as an engineering company our employees are required to have a level of technical understanding that you only get from university. Some of our project controls people don’t need degrees, but those who do have degrees in management etc are of little more use than those without degrees. The best of our project controls people are those with a technical and management qualification to their name, as you might expect.

In general in our industry, the value of experience starts to wear off above around the mid-late 40s as our personnel get financially too comfortable and frankly lazy. Our best people are generally in their 30s – enough experience to stand on their own two feet, but still young and hungry enough to care.

Study something useful (like engineering) and you can’t go wrong really. I’d always prefer a graduate to a school leaver all else being equal, but some degree courses are pretty useless. What university does teach however is resourcefulness. A graduate will generally be able to work out where to look for information than a school leaver, because irrespective of the course subject, that’s what all degrees have in common.

GroundEffect

7,957 posts

41 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
NormalWisdom said:
My partner's daughter is a 2-1 graduate (history of art). She wants a career in fine art (curator or somesuch). After more than a year of volunteering at various auction houses and museums around the country (unpaid) and not securing paid work she is losing a lot of confidence. She literally will do anything - Now she is living down here with us (was originally near Chester) and working as a kitchen assistant in a school canteen getting paid c£6 an hour. She was even turned down for an interview at that school for a post as teaching assistant in the Arts department despite having glowing references from a school where she did similar voluntarily.

My fear is that continuous knock-backs really do serious damage to her and people in her position. Confidence is eroded and feelings of low-self worth start and grow.

She really will do (and is very capable of) anything but confidence is now a factor and I don't know how you fix that....
It took me two years to land a decent job and literally hundreds of rejections...and that was with a sought after degree (Masters in Aero engineering). You just need to keep at it and whilst I was close to giving up I realised that there were so many people in the same situation and they hadn't given up so I couldn't afford to.


Lazygraduate

1,628 posts

46 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
There’s a substantial difference between the motivated, intelligent graduates who have their pick of graduate jobs (maybe 25% of graduates?) who would be approximately the same number in total as those who went to university thirty years ago, and the 75% of graduates who are there for the boozing and study media studies with history of Beckham studies who subsequently scrabble for the dishwashing job at the Red Lion. I wish people wouldn’t tar them all with the same brush.

There, got that off my chest

Donatello

1,035 posts

46 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
Lazygraduate said:
There’s a substantial difference between the motivated, intelligent graduates who have their pick of graduate jobs (maybe 25% of graduates?) who would be approximately the same number in total as those who went to university thirty years ago, and the 75% of graduates who are there for the boozing and study media studies with history of Beckham studies who subsequently scrabble for the dishwashing job at the Red Lion. I wish people wouldn’t tar them all with the same brush.

There, got that off my chest
I understand that. I know from family members who have been to uni and worked bloody hard to get where they are, that there are some very hard working people with degrees.

I know you weren't replying to my post at the top of the page but I felt I would clarify my original post.

I applied for a job a couple of months back (no mention of required education level) in a fairly low level position but it would have been a platform for me.

I got a call to tell me that I had been unsuccessful as they were looking for graduates. To my amazement, a friend on Facebook got the job after the interview process. He has a degree, is a lazy gobste who had 1 part time job at the age of 18 when we went to college together and lasted about 2 months.

He hasn't worked other than the 2 months above, he hasn't any experience in a working environment and he got the job because he had a degree. How does that make any sense from an employers point of view?

DCS01

291 posts

67 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
All a degree tells me is that the holder is surposed to be able to read and write a bit better than the average. Unless engineering,chemistry or Physics.

extraT

849 posts

35 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
You're in Luton and you dont know of The University of Bedfordshire (formerly Uni. of Luton), on Park Street, Luton??!!! www.beds.ac.uk get in touch with their student union.

stemll

1,679 posts

85 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
extraT said:
You're in Luton and you dont know of The University of Bedfordshire (formerly Uni. of Luton), on Park Street, Luton??!!! www.beds.ac.uk get in touch with their student union.
Or "Luton College" as it was when I went there to do my HNC.

joema

1,221 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
NormalWisdom said:
My partner's daughter is a 2-1 graduate (history of art). She wants a career in fine art (curator or somesuch). After more than a year of volunteering at various auction houses and museums around the country (unpaid) and not securing paid work she is losing a lot of confidence. She literally will do anything - Now she is living down here with us (was originally near Chester) and working as a kitchen assistant in a school canteen getting paid c£6 an hour. She was even turned down for an interview at that school for a post as teaching assistant in the Arts department despite having glowing references from a school where she did similar voluntarily.

My fear is that continuous knock-backs really do serious damage to her and people in her position. Confidence is eroded and feelings of low-self worth start and grow.

She really will do (and is very capable of) anything but confidence is now a factor and I don't know how you fix that....
Is there any chance of some careers guidance, cv writing, interview help from somewhere? Maybe her uni careers? Can you help run over job apps with her? Or someone else?

It is harsh out in the market right now. So often there are just a lot of people all after one job. High volumes of applications can work in theory. . But making sure the role is right and that they're written very well and tailored to the role will likely work far better.

From my experience some employers have been reluctant with graduates applying for jobs not needing a degree. Partly because there's a good chance it's a stop gap or not actually what the applicant wants to do.

I hope it turns out ok.

crofty1984

10,356 posts

89 months

[news] 
Thursday 1st November 2012 quote quote all
z4chris99 said:
hyperblue said:
I guess you've calculated that you'll earn more than £50k more than you would without a degree over your lifetime? Bargain indeed.
well i haven't finished the masters yet as am doing it PT, but i suspect ill earn back the outlay in a year or two as soon as i move job..
You may be in for a surprise.

blueheron

400 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd November 2012 quote quote all
crofty1984 said:
z4chris99 said:
hyperblue said:
I guess you've calculated that you'll earn more than £50k more than you would without a degree over your lifetime? Bargain indeed.
well i haven't finished the masters yet as am doing it PT, but i suspect ill earn back the outlay in a year or two as soon as i move job..
You may be in for a surprise.
This. Please don't delude yourself and be prepared for a potentially rough ride.

Carl_Docklands

3,166 posts

147 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd November 2012 quote quote all
einsign said:
We would like to take on and train a couple of graduates in customer services and sales/marketing roles.

Where is the best place to search for such people, is there a student job forum or such like?

They would be located at a site in Luton if it helps. Thanks.
Try City Gateway. They might not be able to help directly but would point you in the right direction.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/work/take-on-an-app...



revvedup

37 posts

56 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd November 2012 quote quote all
Two places that I frequent, which I would recommend

http://www.studentgems.com/

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f...

Hope this helps !
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