Discussion
You're the boss... you need to work a solution that suits you. Do something similar to what MotorcyclesFish has suggested. Tell people they won't be required to work the extra 30 minutes if they hit all their targets.
It gives your best earner an excuse not to do it, while not making it look like you're giving in. If anyone else can hit these targets then let them have the time off also - it'll be a good problem to have if nobody ends up working those 30 mins and you need to take on a part time hire to do it...
It gives your best earner an excuse not to do it, while not making it look like you're giving in. If anyone else can hit these targets then let them have the time off also - it'll be a good problem to have if nobody ends up working those 30 mins and you need to take on a part time hire to do it...
BrabusMog said:
I sort of sympathise with him but it is something everyone is asked to do and they get various benefits that none of our competitors would ever offer if they were to work for them. If it was a day here or there it would be tolerable but it's not fair on the other people who give up the extra half an hour, he just sees it as beneath him in my opinion. And we don't keep it a secret, everyone is informed what is expected of them at interview stage.
Exactly my point. He cant be arsed and thinks it is beneath him. Everyone else is expected to do it. Let this guy get away with it, no matter how good he is, then you will lose the respect of the rest of your workforce. Nobody is Irreplaceable and the sooner this guy wakes up to that fact, the better!Edited by BrabusMog on Friday 25th January 09:18
icetea said:
You're the boss... you need to work a solution that suits you. Do something similar to what MotorcyclesFish has suggested. Tell people they won't be required to work the extra 30 minutes if they hit all their targets.
It gives your best earner an excuse not to do it, while not making it look like you're giving in. If anyone else can hit these targets then let them have the time off also - it'll be a good problem to have if nobody ends up working those 30 mins and you need to take on a part time hire to do it...
The whole point is that we have a massive influx of business in January and February and to manage the volume the best solution is to have staff work an additional 30 mins. This has been happening for the last 6 years - it's not a new thing. Most people don't mind, some sales people actually do more overtime unpaid during this period to make additional sales once they hit targets. I am not changing our operation to suit one person.It gives your best earner an excuse not to do it, while not making it look like you're giving in. If anyone else can hit these targets then let them have the time off also - it'll be a good problem to have if nobody ends up working those 30 mins and you need to take on a part time hire to do it...
icetea said:
BrabusMog said:
I am not changing our operation to suit one person.
Well theres your answer then - tell him to work the 30 minutes or clear his desk out. The fact this thread exists makes it pretty obvious you don't want to do that though...
You have to draw a line somewhere as an employee. At a previous workplace I was told the working hours were half 8 till 5, with an hour for lunch. It was actually expected that you'd do till half 5, with the notional and entirely non recoupable 'if you need to leave an hour or two early every so often thats fine'. Add that up over the course of a year and you're gaving away a significant chunk of money, or indeed if moneys not important as with your guy, just time...
I think you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the other people feel resentment, why not try it as a perk? top x% achievers arent expected to work the extra half hour.
I think you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the other people feel resentment, why not try it as a perk? top x% achievers arent expected to work the extra half hour.
I can't really make this much clearer.
When we hire staff, we tell them that in January and February the will have to do 30 mins a night overtime. This is not exclusive to our company within the industry, it's the busiest time of the year. Everyone else is fine to do it, the overtime is paid and if they need the odd night here or there to slip off at their usual time we won't stop that. They get paid overtime and the opportunity to make more commission, most level-headed people see this as a good oppportunity.
I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.
When we hire staff, we tell them that in January and February the will have to do 30 mins a night overtime. This is not exclusive to our company within the industry, it's the busiest time of the year. Everyone else is fine to do it, the overtime is paid and if they need the odd night here or there to slip off at their usual time we won't stop that. They get paid overtime and the opportunity to make more commission, most level-headed people see this as a good oppportunity.
I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.
BrabusMog said:
They get paid overtime and the opportunity to make more commission, most level-headed people see this as a good oppportunity.
Some level headed people can manage their money perfectly well and would rather have the 30 minutes to themselves. Especially if its going to be taxed at a higher rate than most of the rest of their income - he might just think its not worth the hassle.How about this as a possible solution - tell everyone if they don't want to work their 30 minutes they don't have to, as long as they can get someone else to do it? I bet (especially in Jan/Feb with the Christmas bills etc) you won't have any shortage of takers there. You're happy as the work gets done, your top seller is happy as he leaves at 5.30, someone else is happy as they get to make a little more money. The only issue there is people in the office till 6... if you're there past then anyway its a non-issue though.
BrabusMog said:
I can't really make this much clearer.
I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.
Well having had the "nice little chat" I think you now have to be the boss and not the friend! You tried asking him, now tell him! I do not wish to be rude but grow a pair and sort him out or let him walk all over you. If you choose the latter, dont be amazed when the rest of your staff start doing it.I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.
I am a manager and my team will never get away with this and yet we all work mental hours at times, including 24 hour races!
Its half an hour a day over 8 weeks possibly less. (if it goes quiet again as you ve suggested)
It really is nt alot to ask, and he knows the score.
As said above man up call him in 1st thing monday and have it out.
But dont let him spoil your weekend and mull over it.
When i went for my last job, they said to me in the interview " we need a can do attitude " if you have not got that then we ll stop the interview here. (to the point no pussy footing about, which there was plenty of in my last job)
place i work are all of the attitude that getting on with it is better than moaning about it as by the time you ve finished you d be half way thru doin the job in hand.
Sorry OP but its looking like you maybe a man down soon.
It really is nt alot to ask, and he knows the score.
As said above man up call him in 1st thing monday and have it out.
But dont let him spoil your weekend and mull over it.
When i went for my last job, they said to me in the interview " we need a can do attitude " if you have not got that then we ll stop the interview here. (to the point no pussy footing about, which there was plenty of in my last job)
place i work are all of the attitude that getting on with it is better than moaning about it as by the time you ve finished you d be half way thru doin the job in hand.
Sorry OP but its looking like you maybe a man down soon.
BrabusMog said:
I can't really make this much clearer.
When we hire staff, we tell them that in January and February the will have to do 30 mins a night overtime. This is not exclusive to our company within the industry, it's the busiest time of the year. Everyone else is fine to do it, the overtime is paid and if they need the odd night here or there to slip off at their usual time we won't stop that. They get paid overtime and the opportunity to make more commission, most level-headed people see this as a good oppportunity.
I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.
It seems obvious that you are not willing to let him off the extra time, and I would not be surprised if the rest of the office can see this too. You need to get a handle on the situation quickly - you do not want the rest of the team losing respect for you, or your problems will get a whole lot worse.When we hire staff, we tell them that in January and February the will have to do 30 mins a night overtime. This is not exclusive to our company within the industry, it's the busiest time of the year. Everyone else is fine to do it, the overtime is paid and if they need the odd night here or there to slip off at their usual time we won't stop that. They get paid overtime and the opportunity to make more commission, most level-headed people see this as a good oppportunity.
I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.
If it is a part of the role, I don't see why you would treat it any differently to if he decided not to turn up on Tuesdays any more.
If it is voluntary, you should expect others not do it anymore. In this case, you would need to work out how many hours overtime are needed each week, and offer it out first come first served. You would need to adjust the rate though so hat supply = demand.
Going back to the opening question, the contract is clear and enforceable. The employer can require the employee to work paid overtime. This will only be overriden if the overtime would take the employee over the maximum hours provided for by the Working Time Regulations, and the employee has no current opt out from that maximum.
This is a management issue, to be handled by a firm but fair approach, but ultimately the contract supports your position, OP.
This is a management issue, to be handled by a firm but fair approach, but ultimately the contract supports your position, OP.
We work in a very niche sector of the travel industry - Jan/Feb is the busiest time for people planning/booking their holidays for the year and as the product we sell is limited they like to get in quick tonensure they get the departure dates they want.
I've been working from home so far this week due to illness and have been told he left at 1730 last night. So we'll now be speaking with HR and starting with an official verbal warring.
I've been working from home so far this week due to illness and have been told he left at 1730 last night. So we'll now be speaking with HR and starting with an official verbal warring.
No! You have to conduct a disciplinary process before you give a warning. You have now announced on a forum that the bloke might see that you have pre judged the matter. I am not saying that a verbal warning (or, indeed, verbal warring, to borrow your typo) is not appropriate - it probably is, but give the bloke a fair trial before hanging. That's the drill
Why is this? Unfair disciplinary procedure breaks the implied term of trust and confidence that is embedded in the contract of employment, and can set the employee up to claim constructive dismissal, that's why. So, do it by the book.
Why is this? Unfair disciplinary procedure breaks the implied term of trust and confidence that is embedded in the contract of employment, and can set the employee up to claim constructive dismissal, that's why. So, do it by the book.
Sorry, I wasnt clear - what I meant was that we will speak to HR to find out how to go down the disciplinary route. This isnt something I have no experience with, as you can tell. Our HR dept are very "by the book", they will do it the correct way, I just presumed that a verbal warning will be the outcome.
BrabusMog said:
Sorry, I wasnt clear - what I meant was that we will speak to HR to find out how to go down the disciplinary route. This isnt something I have no experience with, as you can tell. Our HR dept are very "by the book", they will do it the correct way, I just presumed that a verbal warning will be the outcome.
Hold yer horses a second..... 
I may have missed a posting, not sure....
He's your top performing guy. Sure, he's behaving like someone without a future, but you owe it to yourself and your business to investigate before starting a grievance procedure and parting company with him.
Take him for a beer or lunch, talk to the guy. Find out what his beef is. If he is truculent and stubborn, then get rid. But maybe it's something else.
NDA said:
Hold yer horses a second.....
I may have missed a posting, not sure....
He's your top performing guy. Sure, he's behaving like someone without a future, but you owe it to yourself and your business to investigate before starting a grievance procedure and parting company with him.
Take him for a beer or lunch, talk to the guy. Find out what his beef is. If he is truculent and stubborn, then get rid. But maybe it's something else.
But starting the disciplinary process is investigating - the first stage being to confirm if he did / find out why he left early. Only after then is the decision made whether any action is necessary.I may have missed a posting, not sure....
He's your top performing guy. Sure, he's behaving like someone without a future, but you owe it to yourself and your business to investigate before starting a grievance procedure and parting company with him.
Take him for a beer or lunch, talk to the guy. Find out what his beef is. If he is truculent and stubborn, then get rid. But maybe it's something else.
Starting it too informally now will only come back to bite later on...
J3PTF said:
But starting the disciplinary process is investigating - the first stage being to confirm if he did / find out why he left early. Only after then is the decision made whether any action is necessary.
Starting it too informally now will only come back to bite later on...
Would it bite him later?Starting it too informally now will only come back to bite later on...
My approach would be to find out what the issue is and to do that in a collaborative way rather than an adversarial one. If it turns out that the guy is simply being awkward then it's quite easy to start a procedure.
The top sales guy is worth a little extra effort I reckon.
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