The Project Managers thread

[Origin Unknown]

I see a lot of questions about moving into Project Management and various other questions about PM's in general.

So, lets stick them in one place, I know there are a fair few PM's on here and this could be a nice little knowledge base for those looking to move in this direction right through to seasoned PM's looking for a sounding board.

Anything "Project Management" goes. Even those moaning about crap PM's

[Origin Unknown]

Me. Started out as a S/W Dev PM and ran with that doing a combination of Project Management and Programme Management. Moved into application deployment, Windows 7 OSD and MS SCCM deployment in a professional services environment. A year ago moved into network infrastructure/security deployment, again in a PS environment.

Moving back to the previous role in 3 weeks time!

[stevenjhepburn]

I'll keep an eye on this thread and possibly contribute. I start working with BAE Systems in September on the Project Management graduate scheme.

[Pulse]

I'm currently a Programme Manager for the NHS, but will be leaving soon.

I started off with a small project for the local council, then moved onto the NHS for almost 5 years. Started in the NHS with a variety of business change projects, then moved onto deliver NHS 111 over 18 months.

I didn't come from a specific expertise background, and just fell into project management as something I thought I'd be good at. Turns out I'm alright at it, so have stuck with it - I enjoy it, too.

I'll soon be taking a step down in terms of job title, but onto a different challenge.

[Trikster]

Was going to start my own thread with this question, but this seems as good a place as any.

Currently taking a career break, but want to demonstrate to future employers I haven't just been sat in the sun and watching Jeremy Kyle (God forbid!) so planning on formalising some of my skills

One of these is PRINCE2 - have done internal courses that weren't certified, but want to get the certification.

Can anyone recommend good course providers, either on-line or in the Reading area? My goal would be to get both Foundation & Practitioner.

TIA

[Pulse]

Trikster said:

Was going to start my own thread with this question, but this seems as good a place as any.

Currently taking a career break, but want to demonstrate to future employers I haven't just been sat in the sun and watching Jeremy Kyle (God forbid!) so planning on formalising some of my skills

One of these is PRINCE2 - have done internal courses that weren't certified, but want to get the certification.

Can anyone recommend good course providers, either on-line or in the Reading area? My goal would be to get both Foundation & Practitioner.

TIA

If you're paying for it yourself (which it seems like you are), I'd just self-study and take the exams at an open centre. It's so easy it's unreal.

If you really want to do a course, then my course with QA was pretty good.

[DJRC]

I try and avoid it like the plague as with the modern way of things it is all the responsibility and grief but none of the authority and ability to actually get stuff done.

Unfortunately Ive been hoodwinked in the new job Im going to that its de facto Deputy PM aswell Its funny I dont know any ex PMs who would go back to it, they all go back to the technical side or move into function management.

[Trikster]

@Pulse - thanks, perhaps that's an option

@DJRD - the plan is not to go back into it, in fact moved away a little while ago - but its a good thing to have on the CV, and whilst waiting for the 'right' job when ready to return to work a little contracting might happen to keep the wolf from the door.

[Podie]

Trikster - be aware that just doing a course does NOT make you a good PM. I've seen plenty of people come and go who had the P2 qualification, but actually couldn't tell me the difference between a risk and an issue.

I've used Knowledge Train (London based, near Barbican) for training and been happy. Oh, and MSP is "fun"



For the thread, I'm an IT Infrastructure Programme Manager - I specialise in IT infrastructure programmes and projects, but generally avoid nasty things like software.

I've worked in various industries, including manufacturing, IT, Investment Banking and Private Equity.

I was dragged through 6-Sigma, then ITIL and then P2. These days I use a mixture of these toolsets and some stuff I've learned the hard way.

[Ultraviolet]

PM here specialising in business intelligence / enterprise data warehousing. My advise would be: know what you're managing. Generic PM skills won't, in my experience, make you successful even if they are accompanied by a certificate. You need to understand how the thing works that you're delivering and have sufficient depth of knowledge to challenge how things are being done, what technology is being used, and how. Otherwise you and / or your client will either get your pants pulled down (!) or you'll end up with a lower quality product. I've just chopped 2 months out of a plan by challenging my ETL developers to use CDC rather than to develop by hand the change derivations. Had I not known that, we would be looking at more time and cost - and a less easily maintained solution for the client. Oh, and if you can demonstrate you know your area, you'll also get significantly better rates...

Cheers, UV

[Podie]

Ultraviolet said:

PM here specialising in business intelligence / enterprise data warehousing. My advise would be: know what you're managing. Generic PM skills won't, in my experience, make you successful even if they are accompanied by a certificate. You need to understand how the thing works that you're delivering and have sufficient depth of knowledge to challenge how things are being done, what technology is being used, and how. Otherwise you and / or your client will either get your pants pulled down (!) or you'll end up with a lower quality product.

Couldn't agree more.

[DJRC]

Ive yet to come across anybody espousing P2 who actually knows what they are doing. What generally happens is the fully tooled up qualified PM manages 2/3rds of the project to the point where the powers that be decide no more money can be wasted on this twit and the project and call in the firefighting PM who knows what can be done, whats needed to be done and what he can sell to the customer. They usually call me and shout in a panic how can I sell this ball bag of a project hes been landed with, to the customer

As a general rule though...whatever budget or schedule somebody hands to you, double one of those components. And hire the best secretary you can.

[Podie]

DJRC said:

Ive yet to come across anybody espousing P2 who actually knows what they are doing.

P2 is a toolset, nothing more. Amusingly in the 2009 refresh they actually admit that if you follow P2 to the letter - your project will fail.

DJRC said:

As a general rule though...whatever budget or schedule somebody hands to you, double one of those components. And hire the best secretary you can.

Good, quick and cheap - pick any two.

[GT03ROB]

I'm a project manager, but maybe I shouldn't be here as I haven't got the foggiest idea what all this Prince stuff is about.

[Trikster]

Thanks all, just to reiterate tho, the course idea is to

A) show future employers I've been investing in myself whilst off

B) get a box formally ticked on the CV

been PM'ing for years, never had to use a pure methodology, but advised formal certification would look good on CV

[Pulse]

I think we all agree on that one! I have met PMs who have done PRINCE2 cold, then gone onto PM work and not done very well. I've also known people to follow it very strictly, and not done very well.

It does get you into some interviews though, sadly... Despite the fact most employers openly admit they don't use it.

[YesItsADiseasel]

I'm a Project "Engineer" for a backup power firm. It's not full blown project management as such, it's effectively arranging boxes into rooms and dealing with everything that encompasses it. I really, really enjoy my job! I'm working with another three PE's under one PM and we are all running between 12 and 40 projects, from £2,000 to £300,000.

I sort out everything from the sale through to final handover of sites, sub contractors, stock, engineer allocation, fire fighting and we also conduct the physical works ourselves. The theory is, if I can do the job on site I have a much better idea of what is required and how long it takes. Makes it easier to talk to engineers as well.
Should I ever move on or higher up, I will now always try to learn the jobs that I am asking people to do. I think it is essential.


I used to plan my own work programs and liaise with clients direct when I was in the field as an IT Technician so this role has similarities. It's my first attempt at anything with "Project" in the title, and as stated, I bloody love my job!!


Edit:I was thrown on to the intermediate APM course the second month I started the role, and failed after a very tough week! I have since gone back and passed the APM Practitioner course. It has very little relavence in what I do, except for now knowing what a Gantt chart is called for when it's attached to an email.

Edited by YesItsADiseasel on Wednesday 24th July 19:56

[DJRC]

You wait till they ask you for a powerpoint overview!

[GT03ROB]

So then what is this Prince stuff as I've never seen or heard of it except on here?

[Podie]

GT03ROB said:

So then what is this Prince stuff as I've never seen or heard of it except on here?

Prince2 - or, Projects in Controlled Environments Version 2, to give its full title, is just a methodology. It was basically a UK Government thing that has become a standard in terms of CVs these days. As suggested in the thread, most people don't use it, know how to use it, but it has become a way of sifting CVs.