Why we hate Recruitment Agencies
Discussion
lawtoni said:
I make my judgement by meeting people, by talking to them and gaining a full understanding about who they are and what they are looking for. You not so much
There are agencies that just skim read CVs and send them on but not many
And how do you decide which ones to meet? There are agencies that just skim read CVs and send them on but not many
Comms are shocking. When I was looking for some work 90% didn't even reply to emails sent at their request. When chased up by phone a further 90% didn't call back. Of the few that did get back to me it went well albeit huge amounts of my time totally wasted by the 90% crew. The irony is that I use agencies to fill vacancies as part of my role when in work so it's been quite an eye opener. Some of the 
s will never darken my door again it must be said.
TX.
s will never darken my door again it must be said.TX.
Nick Grant said:
I suprised that a website that allows companies and contractors to interact directly hasn't sprung up. Fixed fee for adverts and cut the agents out of the loop.
Like others I have had plenty of bad experiences but there are three or four agents that I have always kept in touch with and have a good long term working relationships with, in both getting roles and taking candidates.
You need jobstheword. Seems like a great setup - you get regular emails that match your skills, you visit the link on the website, check out the role and apply to the company directly, and deal with them. It's the only one I use now tbh.Like others I have had plenty of bad experiences but there are three or four agents that I have always kept in touch with and have a good long term working relationships with, in both getting roles and taking candidates.
I have come across 1 good agency - and that was Rullion. They were dead organised, and my agent (who dealt with the contract, was amazing). She helped me out loads, one time they promised me they'd negotiate a rate rise, the blue chip then refused. They gave me the rise out of their end. Also, when I first started, I didn't understand how VAT worked, and although I was VAT registered, I never claimed it or invoiced for it for months and months. Then the VAT man came calling, and I was owing a shade over 10K. Cue panicked phone call to agency; quick chat later I sent them (Rullion) an invoice for that amount, they sent me a cheque the next week which I sent straight to the VAT man, and then Rullion went on to claim it from the blue chip in question. It was all sorted in the space of 2 weeks. Great agency. Sadly they lost preferred supplier status from this blue chip in question, and I had to move to Elan. *spits*.
Edited by Tonsko on Tuesday 22 October 17:45
Been at contracting 18 odd years and all agencies have good and bad people, mainly the latter. Just lost a decent contract because the muppet agency bod misread the client saying hire him as reading not interested, so I took another position up only to get a grovely email a few days later asking if I was still available. Also had multiple times the agency ringing up saying renewal on the table but the client want to cut the rate yet telling the client I want more money, nearly lost a contract due to that once. At the end of the day they are just pimps, and as said once a decent contractor board along the lines of linkedin etc pops up they will either sharpen up thier act or dissapear.
Better agencies appear from experience to be the smaller outfits, but they seem to be disappearing or bought out by bigger firms these days.
Better agencies appear from experience to be the smaller outfits, but they seem to be disappearing or bought out by bigger firms these days.
I've had st experiences with all bar one of the two dozen or so agencies I've been in contact with.
From an employee side, it's shocking. The only thing most do is forward on CVs to the employer whose job they're advertising. Nothing more. the employer still has to do all of the leg work and then pay through the nose at the end of it. When I was vaguely involved in the recruitment end of the process, the shower of utter dross that the recruitment agency passed to us was staggering.
I only once had a good agent. He took me out for coffee to discuss the job (at some length), and rang straight after every interview to check on progress. Sadly I didn't get that role, and I felt bad because he'd really worked hard for it.
t experiences with all bar one of the two dozen or so agencies I've been in contact with.From an employee side, it's shocking. The only thing most do is forward on CVs to the employer whose job they're advertising. Nothing more. the employer still has to do all of the leg work and then pay through the nose at the end of it. When I was vaguely involved in the recruitment end of the process, the shower of utter dross that the recruitment agency passed to us was staggering.
I only once had a good agent. He took me out for coffee to discuss the job (at some length), and rang straight after every interview to check on progress. Sadly I didn't get that role, and I felt bad because he'd really worked hard for it.
Been doing contracting now for more years than I care to remember, I now have a couple of select agencies that I use and I know the agents in these agencies very well, more importantly they know me, they know what type of contracts I go for and always give me a call when they come across a position I might like. I also work on the you scratch my back principle, if they place me in a contract I use them for the staff I bring on.
I also state the rate cut up front, they get 16%. Yes there is a lot of st out there, you just have to work through it to find the right people and stick with them.
I also state the rate cut up front, they get 16%. Yes there is a lot of s
t out there, you just have to work through it to find the right people and stick with them.Edited by Chim on Tuesday 22 October 19:09
I have a few good recruiters I have used and a few I have got on my ste list.
Simple things like going all the way to final interview and find out that the company have said my salary demands were too high, no thanks. Then find out the recruiter took it upon themselves to increase the rate I said I was happy to go with by 20% and they thought I was demanding more money now I was through to final stage.
Was not happy with that one.
Found another recruiter trying to send a doctored version of my CV to a job I was going for, it was only the fact I knew the hiring manager that my CV was not instantly binned.
te list.Simple things like going all the way to final interview and find out that the company have said my salary demands were too high, no thanks. Then find out the recruiter took it upon themselves to increase the rate I said I was happy to go with by 20% and they thought I was demanding more money now I was through to final stage.
Was not happy with that one.
Found another recruiter trying to send a doctored version of my CV to a job I was going for, it was only the fact I knew the hiring manager that my CV was not instantly binned.
jonah35 said:
Its sales, they're not interested in the job seeker no matter how hard they pretend to be and their sole aim is to place you to get commission.
They don't give a s
t about the candidate, only getting paid.I say this as someone who has been unemployed since June and having to deal with these idiots.
Promise the world and deliver sod all.
The sad part is that they genuinely think that I believe their bull s
t.as a very recent example, I applied for a job via an agency about 3 weeks ago and other than an automated response saying that they had forwarded my details to their client, NOTHING! not a fookin whisper.
I managed to find the job advertise on the employers own website, yesterday, so I applied direct (always risky but figured that I had nothing to lose)
I applied late yesterday PM and by lunchtime today I had a phone call from the employer and have an interview on Friday.
SO WT flying F has the recruitment agency done?
answers on a postcard...
All too often the clients themselves make it impossible to do a good and thorough job. 'Find us candidates, but you're not allowed to communicate with the hiring authority and you have to work in competition with five other recruiters at a price point which doesn't allow for time to be spent on quality service'.
To me, the purpose of a third party recruiter is to influence the process to achieve a successful hire, more so than to 'find candidates', since in a talent short market (demographic changes ensure that will be all of them soon enough) the candidate has the power. Yet most employers, especially the corporates, still believe that people should be grateful to have the opportunity to work for them - even when they have five other offers. And candidates generally aren't hidden anyway these days, that doesn't mean just anyone is going to be able to pick up the phone and entice them away. To do so consistently requires finely honed questioning and selling skills and a deep understanding of what each party has to offer the other. Usually the job spec a company comes up with is a load of st and has no value in identifying the right person for the job, and their interview process is deeply flawed. And they aren't able to attract the best people when they do get to interview, as they lack the ability to align their opportunity with the motivations of the candidate. This is what good recruiters are for. To ensure offers are accepted, and by the right people.
If you want to understand why most recruiters suck, look no further than the basis on which they are engaged and paid. You wouldn't hire any other form of consultant to your business without giving them full access to the information they require and a mutual commitment of some kind, would you?
Much of the time, I spend months and sometimes years building relationships with candidates before I ever place them. Or they become clients.
Personally, I get weary from providing the most valuable service a company can buy - showing them how to hire the best - and still getting treated like st most of the time. Good clients are as rare as good recruiters, and tend to be companies which don't hire in volume.
Some particularly enlightened (ha) organisations require that recruiters submit a certain number of CVs for each vacancy, and of course send several of them to call the same candidates with the same lack of useful information. And they will only recognise the first recruiter to email that CV. Go figure what the results of that will look like.
To me, the purpose of a third party recruiter is to influence the process to achieve a successful hire, more so than to 'find candidates', since in a talent short market (demographic changes ensure that will be all of them soon enough) the candidate has the power. Yet most employers, especially the corporates, still believe that people should be grateful to have the opportunity to work for them - even when they have five other offers. And candidates generally aren't hidden anyway these days, that doesn't mean just anyone is going to be able to pick up the phone and entice them away. To do so consistently requires finely honed questioning and selling skills and a deep understanding of what each party has to offer the other. Usually the job spec a company comes up with is a load of s
t and has no value in identifying the right person for the job, and their interview process is deeply flawed. And they aren't able to attract the best people when they do get to interview, as they lack the ability to align their opportunity with the motivations of the candidate. This is what good recruiters are for. To ensure offers are accepted, and by the right people.If you want to understand why most recruiters suck, look no further than the basis on which they are engaged and paid. You wouldn't hire any other form of consultant to your business without giving them full access to the information they require and a mutual commitment of some kind, would you?
Much of the time, I spend months and sometimes years building relationships with candidates before I ever place them. Or they become clients.
Personally, I get weary from providing the most valuable service a company can buy - showing them how to hire the best - and still getting treated like s
t most of the time. Good clients are as rare as good recruiters, and tend to be companies which don't hire in volume.Some particularly enlightened (ha) organisations require that recruiters submit a certain number of CVs for each vacancy, and of course send several of them to call the same candidates with the same lack of useful information. And they will only recognise the first recruiter to email that CV. Go figure what the results of that will look like.
Good insight, thanks! Also why am I not surprised?
Certainly beats:
Certainly beats:
lawtoni said:
Working as a recruitment agent is like making love to a beautiful woman. You've got to offer a good service, get inside their heads and then surprise them from behind and pull their pants down.
Edited by Tonsko on Wednesday 23 October 07:51
lawtoni said:
stevenjhepburn said:
lawtoni said:
You are 100% incorrect in these assumptions.
Tell us, if you can, why someone who is looking for a job should approach your agency.lawtoni said:
I think the biggest reason why agencies take such a bashing and are constantly moaned and complained about as estate agents and now anyone who works in a bank are, is this:
Most people don't understand the purpose of a rec agency.
[b]Misconception:
They are there to find people jobs.
Truth:
They are there to fill their client's jobs. In general (sub £70-100k jobs) the agency gets the vacancy, then looks for the candidates. NOT agency gets lots of random candidates, then looks for jobs to place them in.
They gain absolutely zero in spending time, money effort on people who they cannot place so they don't. No placement = no fee.[/b]
In a world where many job seeks very often don't read job specs and fire off 20+ applications in one sitting, similarly agencies don't spend the time rejecting individual candidates.
So your selling point is that you could find someone their dream job by understanding what they want, but in reality you don't do this? So your selling point is also a load of bullsMost people don't understand the purpose of a rec agency.
[b]Misconception:
They are there to find people jobs.
Truth:
They are there to fill their client's jobs. In general (sub £70-100k jobs) the agency gets the vacancy, then looks for the candidates. NOT agency gets lots of random candidates, then looks for jobs to place them in.
They gain absolutely zero in spending time, money effort on people who they cannot place so they don't. No placement = no fee.[/b]
In a world where many job seeks very often don't read job specs and fire off 20+ applications in one sitting, similarly agencies don't spend the time rejecting individual candidates.
t.Ever think, and I mean really think, about why people believe that recruitment consultants are liars?
My experience of agencies was that they don't really care about matching jobs with candidates. The outcome is, at best, a list of clearly unsuitable candidates who have to be interviewed and at worst having to get rid of someone after a short period and starting the whole process again.
In all honesty, we did much better doing our own recruitment via advertising etc.
In all honesty, we did much better doing our own recruitment via advertising etc.
STW2010 said:
So your selling point is that you could find someone their dream job by understanding what they want, but in reality you don't do this? So your selling point is also a load of bullst.
Ever think, and I mean really think, about why people believe that recruitment consultants are liars?
My comments were clearly about the recruitment industry in general. The way I work is professional and courteous and I find good people good jobs.t.Ever think, and I mean really think, about why people believe that recruitment consultants are liars?
Proclaiming (like many people have done on this thread) that the 100,000+ people in the UK that work in recruitment agencies are all liars, b
ds and lying bds is not intelligent.100,000 people from all parts of the country, ends of the pay scales and all parts of society are not all liars! That is as dim as saying all french people are dishonest or all Americans are thick!
The problem seems to be the perception of what recruiters do, are able to do (as highlighted by RepiV)and what they should do.
I agree that there are improvements needed across the industry, clearly. But there are so many misconceptions and sweeping generalisations it's untrue
lawtoni said:
The problem seems to be the perception of what recruiters do, are able to do (as highlighted by RepiV)and what they should do.
I agree that there are improvements needed across the industry, clearly. But there are so many misconceptions and sweeping generalisations it's untrue
Ergo the problem is what the recruiters do, not the perceptions of what they do. As an employer, I am sick to the back teeth of being cold called and hearing bullsI agree that there are improvements needed across the industry, clearly. But there are so many misconceptions and sweeping generalisations it's untrue
tting, lying, cheesy salesmen trying to worm their way onto our books. Occasionally my extension will ring and it'll be a recruitment agency cold call (often based on an advert listed on our website or a jobs board categorically saying NO AGENCIES). They'll then without realising who I am say "Oh, yes I want to speak to Tallow, it's a personal matter" or something similar. Or try and get me to divulge staff names. All utterly disingenuous and entirely representative of my (i.e. the potential customer) experience. I'm sure you're a perfectly nice chap in real life, OP, but the reality is, based upon almost every post in this thread, that both candidates and employers have had BY FAR more bad experiences than good. If I fell on bad times, it's quite literally the last industry I'd seek work in - even after estate agents.
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