Why we hate Recruitment Agencies

[andy-xr]

It's from LinkedIn, it's industry biased by people with an agenda, but I found parts of this interesting

http://www.recruitingblogs.com/profiles/blogs/why-...

[Anubis]

Engineer1 said:

The issue occurs when you realise that someone has mis understood the information and terminology they were re-editing and as such the bit they left out is key, so you arrive only to find the role whilst as described uses an alternative meaning of a term, or bigs up your experience based on company name rather than job role.

I work for a company with Aerospace in the name but I don't do Aerospace products I do civil land vehicles, some recruiters struggle with this if you know the company history it makes sense as it is a commonality of skills and equipment that means we are based on the site.

Nail + Head. Couldn't agree more. They don't know what they're talking about.

You (experienced) > Agency (clueless) > Manager (experienced)

The people in the middle are causing chaos - perfect example above.

A lot of them go by the company rather than role since they have literally no clue about the job itself (other than a 15 minute phone call to the manager and a 5 lines job description).

I now check up on recruiters that contact me on linkedin - almost every single one is fresh out of uni or has a history doing PA type work. The one I spoke to just now was a Ryanair stewardess for the past 18 months and now has 3 months work experience in recruitment. This, is the person that is rewriting experienced people's CVs.

It's scary...

Edited by Anubis on Thursday 20th March 12:08

[edc]

Anubis said:

Engineer1 said:

The issue occurs when you realise that someone has mis understood the information and terminology they were re-editing and as such the bit they left out is key, so you arrive only to find the role whilst as described uses an alternative meaning of a term, or bigs up your experience based on company name rather than job role.

I work for a company with Aerospace in the name but I don't do Aerospace products I do civil land vehicles, some recruiters struggle with this if you know the company history it makes sense as it is a commonality of skills and equipment that means we are based on the site.

Nail + Head. Couldn't agree more. They don't know what they're talking about.

You (experienced) > Agency (clueless) > Manager (experienced)

The people in the middle are causing chaos - perfect example above.

A lot of them go by the company rather than role since they have literally no clue about the job itself (other than a 15 minute phone call to the manager and a 5 lines job description).

I now check up on recruiters that contact me on linkedin - almost every single one is fresh out of uni or has a history doing PA type work. The one I spoke to just now and she was a Ryanair stewardess for the past 18 months and now has 3 months work experience in recruitment. This, is the person that is rewriting experienced people's CVs.

It's scary...

The root cause of this issue is not necessarily with the recruiter. Most job seekers like to think it is as that is who their contact is. But, it is the company who is going out to market and engaging companies to recruit. They need to write a half decent job decription and have people understand enough of the who, what, how's etc. Now, as a candidate, try calling the compnay and asking for 30 mins of their time to brief you on the role, the company, the direction of the business etc, before you apply and see what sort of response you get. Then try again, and say you want to speak to the hiring manager as the preson you spoke to had no idea. Now imagine, 25 recruiters, all touting that they are the bee knees doing them same. That is one of the reasons I bounce recruiters all the time. If I have all the bases covered with a solid and reliable supply base then life is good. In many ways, the approach is no different to any other buyer for any other service or commodity.

[Engineer1]

To be fair all you need do is look at the job spec HR write for your current job to see that the recruiter will be on a hiding to nothing.

[edc]

Engineer1 said:

To be fair all you need do is look at the job spec HR write for your current job to see that the recruiter will be on a hiding to nothing.

It's a bit like an engineer designing a product. He has the spec and requirements, there are ATEs, there are specs and drawings, BOMs and routings, there are customer meetings etc. Then it goes into production, the manufacturing cell have no idea what they are making, who it's for, what the application is and are missing half the material spec. They go back and ask for the full package but never get anything back. In the mean time the customer is receving updates that all is on track and delivery schedule will be fine even though they maybe now 10 days out on a 4 week lead time.

In the main HR people don't write job specs. I have a template and guidance notes which managers can use, but hiring managers need to write the job specs. HR people can rat it out with them to see whether they really need 15 years experience at something or whether a junior person can replace the guy who has been foing the job for a life time etc. Hiring managers are the ones responsible for ensuring they have the right mix of skills and experience. HR people can provide a mix of tools and processes that help to set a target and identify what that might look like but HR people do not tell line/department managers what experience they need in the team.

The problem is many hiring/department/line managers take no ownership or responsibility for these facets. The amount of time I have in the past had to revisit job specs, fill in gaps and get them to validate (or simply not respond) to amendments is unreal. To make a point sometimes you use exactly what they have provided, the hiring manager then complains about the crap candidates and the candidates complain about the crap job description. Many of the posters here think the panacea is dealing only with the hiring or technical people. The reality is often totally the opposite.

[bad company]

Just to add some balance we used to re write every candidate's CV. The clients liked it that way as the layout was always uniform so they could easily find the information they wanted quickly.

We saw some horror CV's from candidates including one who insisted on putting hobbies and interests on page 1. I tried to explain to her that as she was a Solicitor a potential employer will not be looking too hard at her violin grades.

[Engineer1]

edc said:

Engineer1 said:

To be fair all you need do is look at the job spec HR write for your current job to see that the recruiter will be on a hiding to nothing.

It's a bit like an engineer designing a product. He has the spec and requirements, there are ATEs, there are specs and drawings, BOMs and routings, there are customer meetings etc. Then it goes into production, the manufacturing cell have no idea what they are making, who it's for, what the application is and are missing half the material spec. They go back and ask for the full package but never get anything back. In the mean time the customer is receving updates that all is on track and delivery schedule will be fine even though they maybe now 10 days out on a 4 week lead time.

In the main HR people don't write job specs. I have a template and guidance notes which managers can use, but hiring managers need to write the job specs. HR people can rat it out with them to see whether they really need 15 years experience at something or whether a junior person can replace the guy who has been foing the job for a life time etc. Hiring managers are the ones responsible for ensuring they have the right mix of skills and experience. HR people can provide a mix of tools and processes that help to set a target and identify what that might look like but HR people do not tell line/department managers what experience they need in the team.

The problem is many hiring/department/line managers take no ownership or responsibility for these facets. The amount of time I have in the past had to revisit job specs, fill in gaps and get them to validate (or simply not respond) to amendments is unreal. To make a point sometimes you use exactly what they have provided, the hiring manager then complains about the crap candidates and the candidates complain about the crap job description. Many of the posters here think the panacea is dealing only with the hiring or technical people. The reality is often totally the opposite.

True even better when the guys writting it don't speak to any of the employees doing the job... I may have a bee in my bonnet over this as I have a job spec for a new role within the company I work for that replaces my current role and the job spec for the bit I do now doesn't match what I do and speaking to others the other bits are wrong as well but hey ho what do I know after all I've only done this job for the best part of 3 years.

[Gargamel]

Anubis said:

Nail + Head. Couldn't agree more. They don't know what they're talking about.

You (experienced) > Agency (clueless) > Manager (experienced)

The people in the middle are causing chaos - perfect example above.

A lot of them go by the company rather than role since they have literally no clue about the job itself (other than a 15 minute phone call to the manager and a 5 lines job description).

I now check up on recruiters that contact me on linkedin - almost every single one is fresh out of uni or has a history doing PA type work. The one I spoke to just now was a Ryanair stewardess for the past 18 months and now has 3 months work experience in recruitment. This, is the person that is rewriting experienced people's CVs.

It's scary...

Edited by Anubis on Thursday 20th March 12:08

Whilst I accept that many recruiters lack a technical knowledge of the subject, they do become great at reading peoples attitude.... However many people try recruitment for a short while, some listen and learn and pick up the technical requirements others do not and leave quickly, it is a brutal industry for staff churn.

There are many types of recruiters, after all it is an industry worth nearly £10bn in the UK.

Perhaps the ones you are encountering are a little like "Domestic Appliance Engineers "

[Anubis]

Literally just got off the phone to yet another agency. Advert states in black and white - Location: London.

Conversation goes as follows:

Her: "Hi, is that <my name>?"
Me: "Hello, yes it is"
Her: "oh hi it's Lizzy, you applied for XYZ role this morning"
Me: "Yes I did. Thanks for calling."
Her: "okay, you look a really good fit. there's just one thing; the role isn't actually in London..."

oh, here we go - it's just outside London or something like Kent or Surrey...

Her: "...yer it's actually in SOUTHAMPTON. How does that work for you?"
Me: " Southampton? You sure? The advert said London; that's no where near?!"
Her: "er yer. so, will you be willing to go to Southampton?"
Me: " erm...no sorry, im trying to stay in London. Thank you"

I mean...that's like putting an classified ad up on PH for a red Ferrari but turns out it's a blue Fiesta. It's not even close...

[Anubis]

bad company said:

Just to add some balance we used to re write every candidate's CV. The clients liked it that way as the layout was always uniform so they could easily find the information they wanted quickly.

We saw some horror CV's from candidates including one who insisted on putting hobbies and interests on page 1. I tried to explain to her that as she was a Solicitor a potential employer will not be looking too hard at her violin grades.

bad_company. I've read the entire thread and I understand where you're coming from since you were a recruiter and it seems from what you've said, you made a good living from it and took time to understand your clients and candidates. Unfortunately you are in a very small minority that represent the RA world like that from my experience.

It's not a personal dig against you or anything; you're probably sitting there trying to drill home that there are two sides to the story - and this is the exact point. Most of us don't ever get to sit on your side of the fence.

I know you won't do this (you got better things to do), but it would be great if you could apply for roles via other agencies - just sit back and watch. You'll see so much nonsense as a candidate. So many bullsers trying to make a quick buck. You tire of having to deal with people that should only really be qualified to stack shelves but alas they decided to get in recruitment since (it seems) they take anyone. This is no offence to you personally - it's just a general viewpoint from a lot of 'consultants' I've dealt with.

I kid you not that within just 3 hours (3 hours!) since a job posting was advertised I submitted my CV; I phoned to discuss / understand what the client is looking for only to be told that he's already sent all the CVs he can. 3 fg hours - it's a race to the bottom; you surely can't get enough good candidates in under 3 hours? It's a case of collect, box, ship and wait for a reward.

You also get these constant lies wasting everyone's time like the example I just gave above. The advert says one thing, recruiter decides to post something entirely different. Why? It just wastes everyone's time and then agencies complain they are chased all the time.

We as candidates don't want you to rewrite CVs for us. Give recommendations; yes. Rewrite parts; no. If little Jimmy can't be bothered to spell then that's his fault - put it in the bin and pick someone who can. Don't rewrite things so it looks like every person is 100% suitable; you'll just end up lying and misrepresenting someone.

I just wish for 1 day you apply for jobs online - you'll start to see the sheer amateurish mistakes and bs recruitment agencies on the whole make.

Again, this is not a personal attack on you. So many people get burnt by these frs that the industry as a whole seems rotten and totally unregulated.

[Jim909]

I hate them because when i was looking for work they were totally useless, but now i have a job they phone me and offer me jobs...

[Gargamel]

Jim909 said:

I hate them because when i was looking for work they were totally useless, but now i have a job they phone me and offer me jobs...

No different to banks, when you have money they want to give you more, when you have none and need to borrow you have no chance.....

[toon10]

I dislike recruitment agencies based on experience.

If 'm interested in finding work, sure I can use a recruitment agency. They have jobs to fill for companies so if your CV/requirements match then great.

The problem starts here. You specify your requirements and they never listen to them and try and sell you a job that you're clearly not going to be interested in. For example:

Tommy Smith wants a job as a senior software developer within a 10 mile radius of Newcastle with a starting salary of £45k per. He's also asked not to be contacted during work hours by phone in case his boss is within earshot. Email is fine or phone calls after 5.

What he gets is a phone call at 9am duing his one to one review with his boss asking if he wants to commute to Peterlee to be a helpdesk support technician starting on £18k per year?

I exagerate for effect but you get the drift. This isn't just one or two agents, it's the vast majority I've used in the past.

My mate lost his job a few years back as a window fitter when his boss got a phonecall asking for a reference for him. His boss wasn't aware he was looking so said his position was not tenable. Why would an agent do that? He was lucky he managed to feed his kids and pay the mortgage as a company he worked for previously took him back.

[Engineer1]

toon10 said:

My mate lost his job a few years back as a window fitter when his boss got a phonecall asking for a reference for him. His boss wasn't aware he was looking so said his position was not tenable. Why would an agent do that? He was lucky he managed to feed his kids and pay the mortgage as a company he worked for previously took him back.

A seriously good reason for being evasive with regard to your manager's name and if with a big company the exact site / department you work in.

[Rotary Madness]

Anubis said:

Literally just got off the phone to yet another agency. Advert states in black and white - Location: London.

Conversation goes as follows:

Her: "Hi, is that <my name>?"
Me: "Hello, yes it is"
Her: "oh hi it's Lizzy, you applied for XYZ role this morning"
Me: "Yes I did. Thanks for calling."
Her: "okay, you look a really good fit. there's just one thing; the role isn't actually in London..."

oh, here we go - it's just outside London or something like Kent or Surrey...

Her: "...yer it's actually in SOUTHAMPTON. How does that work for you?"
Me: " Southampton? You sure? The advert said London; that's no where near?!"
Her: "er yer. so, will you be willing to go to Southampton?"
Me: " erm...no sorry, im trying to stay in London. Thank you"

I mean...that's like putting an classified ad up on PH for a red Ferrari but turns out it's a blue Fiesta. It's not even close...

Ive had one that after traipsing over an hour to find the place and half a day off work to go through some huge interview process, tell me that the wage was 40% less than the advertised one. "Oh it must have been an error, so do you still want the job?" It took quite a lot of restraint to not swear them out...

[bad company]

To those 'Recruitment Agency Haters'

Why do you think the agencies exist? From this thread the industry seems to hated by both employers and employees. Both sides of the divide are saying that they do better without agents so why not do just that?

[DJRC]

Anubis said:

DJRC said:

Why do you care what the "CV" that the agency sent over looks like? All it will be is a print out from a computer prog that puts information in various places. Its a re-written CV, its just a print out to a pro forma. Why take a copy of your own CV along? Do you think the company cares? Do they fk. You are in the interview, the layout or presentation of your CV becomes irrelevant. As to your hobbies? Wtf are you, a graduate? They don't give a st abour your hobbies, your life or you in any kind of way beyond...is your experience ok, can you do the job, are you a complete fking moron.

And still, why do some of you have long conversations with agents over the phone? An agency phonecall should consist entirely of the following:

"Whats the job?"
"Whats the dosh?"
"Where is it?"
"Permie or contract?"

That's it. You ask the questions, they answer to your satisfaction, you say yes or hang up. Any "fishing" calls you just hang up immediately. Why the fk would you actually talk to them if they *haven't* got an immediate job for you???

You won't get very far being rude and hanging up on people; what are you a graduate?

The reason for my rant is primarily not because someone realigned a few paragraphs - the whole text was rewritten making it seem a lot more amateur.

Would you let me write your CV?

I have no idea who you are, what you're good at or even your industry. However, based on this job description I've been handed I'm now going to rewrite your CV based on that using phrases that make little sense to an expert since I have no idea what YOU are good at. See my point?

Actually I did it an hr or so after I wrote that. A chap had been chasing me for a job, so I finally got back to him, asked him what the dosh was and when he said £25-28k, I believe my actual words were "Not a chance in hell" and put the phone straight down.

Im always rude to recruiters who don't tell me exactly what I want to know when I want to know it. Those who do understand that Im their customer and what their job is I deal with very politely and professionally and I always go back to those same guys when I decide to put feelers out. I was a graduate about 15yrs ago, these days I earn 6 figures bumming around Europe. You may choose not to believe me, in which case Ill point you to the pics Ive posted of where Im currently working in Italy over in the planes n boats forum.

I couldn't care less what someone does with my CV. Ive seen my CV in the hands of interviewers and its always hacked about in different ways, from what I can tell never the same way twice. Once Im in the interview the same questions will get asked anyway about my experience and I can waffle that crap in my sleep.

[Anubis]

DJRC said:

Actually I did it an hr or so after I wrote that. A chap had been chasing me for a job, so I finally got back to him, asked him what the dosh was and when he said £25-28k, I believe my actual words were "Not a chance in hell" and put the phone straight down.

Im always rude to recruiters who don't tell me exactly what I want to know when I want to know it. Those who do understand that Im their customer and what their job is I deal with very politely and professionally and I always go back to those same guys when I decide to put feelers out. I was a graduate about 15yrs ago, these days I earn 6 figures bumming around Europe. You may choose not to believe me, in which case Ill point you to the pics Ive posted of where Im currently working in Italy over in the planes n boats forum.

I couldn't care less what someone does with my CV. Ive seen my CV in the hands of interviewers and its always hacked about in different ways, from what I can tell never the same way twice. Once Im in the interview the same questions will get asked anyway about my experience and I can waffle that crap in my sleep.

You don't need to prove anything to a bunch of strangers online?

We all know your Billy Big Bks with a beard and have director status in life, soaking up the sun on your boat in the Med counting your 6 figure salary, whilst hanging up on people.

What a strange post...

[Chim]

DJRC said:

Actually I did it an hr or so after I wrote that. A chap had been chasing me for a job, so I finally got back to him, asked him what the dosh was and when he said £25-28k, I believe my actual words were "Not a chance in hell" and put the phone straight down.

Im always rude to recruiters who don't tell me exactly what I want to know when I want to know it. Those who do understand that Im their customer and what their job is I deal with very politely and professionally and I always go back to those same guys when I decide to put feelers out. I was a graduate about 15yrs ago, these days I earn 6 figures bumming around Europe. You may choose not to believe me, in which case Ill point you to the pics Ive posted of where Im currently working in Italy over in the planes n boats forum.

I couldn't care less what someone does with my CV. Ive seen my CV in the hands of interviewers and its always hacked about in different ways, from what I can tell never the same way twice. Once Im in the interview the same questions will get asked anyway about my experience and I can waffle that crap in my sleep.

Christ, what a completely titish post, are you actually this much of an arse in real life

[nsa]

DJRC said:

these days I earn 6 figures bumming around Europe.

You're a rent boy?