Unfair Dismissal (or not)?
Discussion
Mother in law has worked for a number of years for a Doctors practice in England.
They have recently changed their systems and she has struggled to learn the new one.
They have said she is too disruptive on other staff asking for help, and given her one months notice.
She is 67.
On the face of it I can understand their frustration. On the other-hand I wonder about their training.
Could this be unfair? Hints or tips appreciated.
They have recently changed their systems and she has struggled to learn the new one.
They have said she is too disruptive on other staff asking for help, and given her one months notice.
She is 67.
On the face of it I can understand their frustration. On the other-hand I wonder about their training.
Could this be unfair? Hints or tips appreciated.
Assuming 'several' is > 2 years
there needs to be a proper capability ( more likely based on the information given) disciplinary (less likely based on the info given) process done before fairly dismissing her.
how much of the issue is formally documented?
how much training has she actually had ?
have first and possibley second stage warnings been issued ?
what about action plans under capability procedure ?
If the facts are as stated in the OP (they usually aren't) then this looks like an unfair dismissal. There is also a faint whiff of age discrimination here, but only an analysis of the full facts could be a basis for reliable advice. Do not obtain that advice from an internet car Forum. The claim could in theory have substantial value - consult a proficient solicitor.
Breadvan72 said:
If the facts are as stated in the OP (they usually aren't) then this looks like an unfair dismissal. There is also a faint whiff of age discrimination here, but only an analysis of the full facts could be a basis for reliable advice. Do not obtain that advice from an internet car Forum. The claim could in theory have substantial value - consult a proficient solicitor.
Thanks BreadVan. I can only relay the facts as they have been relayed to me, second hand via the missus and over the phone. I accept fully your disclaimer, and while I would accept guidance from an Internet Forum, I would always push to a proficient expert... Where the Internet excels is making aware where that should be done.Thinking of it more, with the old system she was fine. It's the new system that's broken her and it's difficult to imagine that it's not down to inadequate training, albeit she may have required more training than perhaps a more computer literate person. I know she was concerned at how she would cope.
surveyor said:
Breadvan72 said:
If the facts are as stated in the OP (they usually aren't) then this looks like an unfair dismissal. There is also a faint whiff of age discrimination here, but only an analysis of the full facts could be a basis for reliable advice. Do not obtain that advice from an internet car Forum. The claim could in theory have substantial value - consult a proficient solicitor.
Thanks BreadVan. I can only relay the facts as they have been relayed to me, second hand via the missus and over the phone. I accept fully your disclaimer, and while I would accept guidance from an Internet Forum, I would always push to a proficient expert... Where the Internet excels is making aware where that should be done.Thinking of it more, with the old system she was fine. It's the new system that's broken her and it's difficult to imagine that it's not down to inadequate training, albeit she may have required more training than perhaps a more computer literate person. I know she was concerned at how she would cope.
'inadequate training' can be an interesting issue especially when training is conducted by people who don;t actually hold a training qualification ...
Sounds like they have moved to one of the new clinical systems such as EMIS Web or Systmone and she is struggling to come to terms with the changes from an extremely old system (maybe something like PCS). She won't be alone - I don't work in the industry any more but the changes have been massive and so have the issues over the last couple of years.
Can't add anything to the debate but just to reassure her she won't be the only one with these issues
Can't add anything to the debate but just to reassure her she won't be the only one with these issues
I'm no legal eagle but surely they have to go through a process. The first step being to highlight the fact that they believe there is a problem. A plan should be put in place to rectify (be it behavioural change, training, or whatever.) If after an agreed point in time, the problem still exists then maybe a written warning with further correction actions before they can actually dismiss her. Like I say I'm not a lawyer and don't know all the facts but I think the employer should be giving their staff the appropriate warnings and chances to amend before getting rid.
surveyor said:
To bring a little closure to this, the mother in-law has taken advice and the news is not great for her employers. I'm a little surprised that a group of professionals have got so much so wrong. Clearly they did not take advice.
Action is in-hand.
Good. As she's 67 hopefully she get a nice pay out for her retirement.Action is in-hand.
Time flies.
The mother in-law followed the appeals process, which resulted in the practice offering a months salary. I'm not convinced that's how it's supposed to work!
It's now in the hands of a specialist employment solicitor, and it's a case of waiting to see what happens.
My father in-law is quite unhappy at seeing his retirement disturbed.....
The mother in-law followed the appeals process, which resulted in the practice offering a months salary. I'm not convinced that's how it's supposed to work!
It's now in the hands of a specialist employment solicitor, and it's a case of waiting to see what happens.
My father in-law is quite unhappy at seeing his retirement disturbed.....
I suppose if the issue of using the new systems isn't going to go away, then they'll get her out sooner or later anyway, after following the correct process.
So if that is inevitable, does the question just become "is a months salary sufficient compensation for the unpleasantness of the informal, improper process that got us to this point?"
So if that is inevitable, does the question just become "is a months salary sufficient compensation for the unpleasantness of the informal, improper process that got us to this point?"
surveyor said:
Time flies.
The mother in-law followed the appeals process, which resulted in the practice offering a months salary. I'm not convinced that's how it's supposed to work!
It's now in the hands of a specialist employment solicitor, and it's a case of waiting to see what happens.
My father in-law is quite unhappy at seeing his retirement disturbed.....
Clearly something is wrong then if they are offering a months salary... it can be many times that in the event they find in your mother in law's favour. The mother in-law followed the appeals process, which resulted in the practice offering a months salary. I'm not convinced that's how it's supposed to work!
It's now in the hands of a specialist employment solicitor, and it's a case of waiting to see what happens.
My father in-law is quite unhappy at seeing his retirement disturbed.....
You have though touched on another less often discussed aspect of persuing a claim. If your father-in law is unhappy imagine the mother-in-law. Do they need the extra stress and emotional and time investment in progressing a claim? Assuming it goes to Tribunal how is the 67 year old mother in law going to do in several months time sitting in front of a panel being grilled in detail by a Barrister whilst representatives of the employing company watch on? Can she do that for several hours or even several days? Does she want to travel somewhere to do that? Will she want to spend a few hours with a solicitor re-counting all of this in minute detail in case prep? I imagine that father-in-law will be in tow to any Tribunal. How will he like it watching on? If it was my mother I'd tell her to pack a bag and go on holiday instead.
edc said:
You have though touched on another less often discussed aspect of persuing a claim. If your father-in law is unhappy imagine the mother-in-law. Do they need the extra stress and emotional and time investment in progressing a claim? Assuming it goes to Tribunal how is the 67 year old mother in law going to do in several months time sitting in front of a panel being grilled in detail by a Barrister whilst representatives of the employing company watch on? Can she do that for several hours or even several days? Does she want to travel somewhere to do that? Will she want to spend a few hours with a solicitor re-counting all of this in minute detail in case prep? I imagine that father-in-law will be in tow to any Tribunal. How will he like it watching on? If it was my mother I'd tell her to pack a bag and go on holiday instead.
Quite right, lets not bother with fighting employers when they get it wrong and dismiss people unfairly, just roll over and have your belly tickled.You make 67 sound old!
I cant add anything OP, other than to wish your Mother in Law good luck.
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