Job move - big risk
Discussion
Thoughts appreciated.
I'm in the fortunate position of having a well paid job (senior lecturer at a very good university, en route to becoming a Professor in the not too distant future). It's also a very safe job, and it has one of those very rare beasts as a perk: a final salary pension scheme. Only one problem. It's doing my nut in. For reasons too dreary to explain in any depth, the thought of working there for another 25 or so years makes me shrivel up inside. And not in a good way.
Last week I was offered a senior position within a small (but growing) consultancy firm that I occasionally do some work for. A very persuasive offer indeed. Good salary, a pension scheme of sorts, private medical, and annual bonus. The door is open for me. Problem being that it's in a very competitive, volatile sector (intelligence/political risk) and the risk (ironic, I know) of it going tits up is of an order of magnitude far greater than the same happening to my present employer, which will probably still be there when the Sun explodes.
Problem being that this isn't just my future I'm dicking with. My wife doesn't have great earning potential (mental health issues) so she's relying on me to pay the mortgage and provide for our retirement. My choice in the next few months could have huge implications either way. I can stay where I am, becoming increasingly unhappy but safe and secure. Or I could take this massive risk with her future. She, by the way, would follow me through the gates of hell so obviously I have been told that if I switch she will be behind me 100%. But she's not impartial. And if I leave academia, there's no going back. That door will be firmly closed by the University, and my specialisation is a narrow one, with very limited academic opportunities elsewhere in the country.
Anyone else taken this sort of jump? The sort of total, abrupt turn that promised either great success or ruin?
I'm in the fortunate position of having a well paid job (senior lecturer at a very good university, en route to becoming a Professor in the not too distant future). It's also a very safe job, and it has one of those very rare beasts as a perk: a final salary pension scheme. Only one problem. It's doing my nut in. For reasons too dreary to explain in any depth, the thought of working there for another 25 or so years makes me shrivel up inside. And not in a good way.
Last week I was offered a senior position within a small (but growing) consultancy firm that I occasionally do some work for. A very persuasive offer indeed. Good salary, a pension scheme of sorts, private medical, and annual bonus. The door is open for me. Problem being that it's in a very competitive, volatile sector (intelligence/political risk) and the risk (ironic, I know) of it going tits up is of an order of magnitude far greater than the same happening to my present employer, which will probably still be there when the Sun explodes.
Problem being that this isn't just my future I'm dicking with. My wife doesn't have great earning potential (mental health issues) so she's relying on me to pay the mortgage and provide for our retirement. My choice in the next few months could have huge implications either way. I can stay where I am, becoming increasingly unhappy but safe and secure. Or I could take this massive risk with her future. She, by the way, would follow me through the gates of hell so obviously I have been told that if I switch she will be behind me 100%. But she's not impartial. And if I leave academia, there's no going back. That door will be firmly closed by the University, and my specialisation is a narrow one, with very limited academic opportunities elsewhere in the country.
Anyone else taken this sort of jump? The sort of total, abrupt turn that promised either great success or ruin?
I'm thinking:
Am I to infer that leaving your job at the uni would be a step up in salary, but a step down in pension? Do you have any sort of negotiating position with the new job offer? Ie could they be tempted to up their salary/pension benefits - you say it's a niche industry so presumably there's a fairly limited supply of labour. They might be able to sweeten the deal further.
On the other hand, it does seem like going from one end of the job security spectrum to the other. It looks to me that you cannot realistically stay in your present job for more than the medium term. But I don't think you're talking like youre to make the leap for this particular offer.
Am I to infer that leaving your job at the uni would be a step up in salary, but a step down in pension? Do you have any sort of negotiating position with the new job offer? Ie could they be tempted to up their salary/pension benefits - you say it's a niche industry so presumably there's a fairly limited supply of labour. They might be able to sweeten the deal further.
On the other hand, it does seem like going from one end of the job security spectrum to the other. It looks to me that you cannot realistically stay in your present job for more than the medium term. But I don't think you're talking like youre to make the leap for this particular offer.
simoid said:
I'm thinking:
Am I to infer that leaving your job at the uni would be a step up in salary, but a step down in pension? Do you have any sort of negotiating position with the new job offer? Ie could they be tempted to up their salary/pension benefits - you say it's a niche industry so presumably there's a fairly limited supply of labour. They might be able to sweeten the deal further.
On the other hand, it does seem like going from one end of the job security spectrum to the other. It looks to me that you cannot realistically stay in your present job for more than the medium term. But I don't think you're talking like youre to make the leap for this particular offer.
Yes, I would say you are correct. Certainly the earning potential of the new role exceeds by some degree (particularly with bonuses included) that which I could ever expect in my present role. But the pension would be nowhere near as good. But the issue isn't the pay, really. I'm just so stupendously bored in my present job that I'm in danger of not giving my students the very best that is due to them.Am I to infer that leaving your job at the uni would be a step up in salary, but a step down in pension? Do you have any sort of negotiating position with the new job offer? Ie could they be tempted to up their salary/pension benefits - you say it's a niche industry so presumably there's a fairly limited supply of labour. They might be able to sweeten the deal further.
On the other hand, it does seem like going from one end of the job security spectrum to the other. It looks to me that you cannot realistically stay in your present job for more than the medium term. But I don't think you're talking like youre to make the leap for this particular offer.
Someone once said that when it came to job opportunities, they had never regretted a 'leap into the unknown'.
As it stands, I'll be taking the new job.
Unable to provide much help with the initial question I'm afraid, but I'm curious: how did you end up in academia in the first place? Did you go BA-MA-PhD because you enjoyed studying, or did you interrupt your studies and come back?
Also, I note from some stalking that you teach history. I realise that your area of history might be very specialist, but there must be opportunities elsewhere available - perhaps in an institution that suits you better? Have you considered semi-academic roles (somewhere like RUSI)?
Also, I note from some stalking that you teach history. I realise that your area of history might be very specialist, but there must be opportunities elsewhere available - perhaps in an institution that suits you better? Have you considered semi-academic roles (somewhere like RUSI)?
I spent 20 years in various banks. My whole career has been banking. Up ay 05:00, train, office, home, tea, bed. Then I had some kind of mid-life and wondered where the hell did 20 years go???!!!
I moved to Dubai, now work for a tiny family run business, have set-up my own business, and can never go back to banking after being out of the business for a couple of years.
I've never been happier.
I think you've already made your mind up, and need a little encouragement! Do it, don't waste another 20 odd years of your life doing something that will eat you up inside, JUST because it provides more security. Challenge yourself, take a risk. Whats the worst that could happen? Smaller house, smaller pension pot, cheaper cars/holidays? I'd suffer that for 20 years of happier times.
You're a long time dead.
I moved to Dubai, now work for a tiny family run business, have set-up my own business, and can never go back to banking after being out of the business for a couple of years.
I've never been happier.
I think you've already made your mind up, and need a little encouragement! Do it, don't waste another 20 odd years of your life doing something that will eat you up inside, JUST because it provides more security. Challenge yourself, take a risk. Whats the worst that could happen? Smaller house, smaller pension pot, cheaper cars/holidays? I'd suffer that for 20 years of happier times.
You're a long time dead.
Would it be possible to split your time between both? We had tons of visiting lecturers at my university and lots of them did consulting gigs on the side.
This hedges your risk and maybe even keeps the final salary pension, and also gives you a foothold in academia should you wish to go back. Can be good for the university too to have lecturers with applied experience, however much they may hate the idea!
This hedges your risk and maybe even keeps the final salary pension, and also gives you a foothold in academia should you wish to go back. Can be good for the university too to have lecturers with applied experience, however much they may hate the idea!
NNH said:
If a professorship isn't too far away, you might be wise to grit your teeth till that arrives. Being a former professor will give you enormous credibility in finding future jobs in a niche field.
This. And then take a 6 month 'sabattical' and do the other thing for 6 months with a safety blanket.
Some other questions that, if I was in your position, would be influencing my decision:
- How much pension entitlement have you accrued with your current employer already? Is it enough such that it, plus a little bit from elsewhere, would suffice?
- If you're not far away from professorship (I'd say within a couple of years), is it worth hanging on, taking the bump in pension entitlement thanks to your new, higher, 'final salary', then jumping ship to the private sector?
- Are there other private sector employers who would give you a better deal than academia, on the event that the small consultancy goes belly-up? I know it's fairly common for (ex-)academics to command much better salaries in business than they can get in universities.
- How much pension entitlement have you accrued with your current employer already? Is it enough such that it, plus a little bit from elsewhere, would suffice?
- If you're not far away from professorship (I'd say within a couple of years), is it worth hanging on, taking the bump in pension entitlement thanks to your new, higher, 'final salary', then jumping ship to the private sector?
- Are there other private sector employers who would give you a better deal than academia, on the event that the small consultancy goes belly-up? I know it's fairly common for (ex-)academics to command much better salaries in business than they can get in universities.
AJS- said:
Would it be possible to split your time between both? We had tons of visiting lecturers at my university and lots of them did consulting gigs on the side.
This. You're a lecturer and occasional consultant. Become a consultant with occasional lecturing. Keep on good terms with the uni so there's a chance of going back if it all goes boobs up.All
Thanks for the feeback. Much appreciated. In response to a few of the questions posed
1) Obviously I'd be using the greater remuneration in order to swell the pension pot so as to compensate. I don't actually have that much in my present employer scheme, as I only started putting in about 5 years ago. I'm 40, so I'm up against it timewise, I know.
2)In answer to your question TVR, I did a BA, then straight to a PhD, then into a think tank (IISS) then into a university. And I teach mainly international politics and security. I'm a historian by training, but not by teaching necessarily. And I never really wanted to be an academic but in the absence of any other skills, I sort of fell into it.
2) As some have pointed out, it would be a good idea to try and maintain links with my present institution. I will try to do that but once I'm out of a permanent position, I'm pretty much out for good (visiting lectureship notwithstanding). If this was a career break to go and some something 'academic' at another university then they might give me two years unpaid leave or a period of secondment, but working in the City doesn't count. So the odd lecture here and there, sure. But no more being full time academic. Not here anyway!
3) I could hold on to become a professor but that's nearer 5 years than 2. And British universities are increasingly using the US system of calling everyone a professor (I'd be an Assistant Professor, in my present post) so there's little clarity these days in who does what, something that will get worse. And yes, you are right, the kudos would be great but i don't know if I could grit my teeth that long (very first world problem I know). Doesn't help that I outperformed all my Professors' in the REF, either. Makes a mockery of the seniority thing.
4) My university demands that, if you take a sabbatical, then you teach and lecture for an amount of time subsequently in order to compensate; a sort of 'return of service'. And the sabbaticals are 3 months in duration, once every three years. So there's no way I could combine the two.
5) Twig, you're probably right
I suppose the biggest thing for me is that I've never really taken a risk in my life, and if I don't take this one, not only will I think less of myself, I will always be thinking, 'what if?'
I hasten to add that this isn't a decsion to be made immediately, but certainly within the next 6 months or so.
Cheers all
Thanks for the feeback. Much appreciated. In response to a few of the questions posed
1) Obviously I'd be using the greater remuneration in order to swell the pension pot so as to compensate. I don't actually have that much in my present employer scheme, as I only started putting in about 5 years ago. I'm 40, so I'm up against it timewise, I know.
2)In answer to your question TVR, I did a BA, then straight to a PhD, then into a think tank (IISS) then into a university. And I teach mainly international politics and security. I'm a historian by training, but not by teaching necessarily. And I never really wanted to be an academic but in the absence of any other skills, I sort of fell into it.
2) As some have pointed out, it would be a good idea to try and maintain links with my present institution. I will try to do that but once I'm out of a permanent position, I'm pretty much out for good (visiting lectureship notwithstanding). If this was a career break to go and some something 'academic' at another university then they might give me two years unpaid leave or a period of secondment, but working in the City doesn't count. So the odd lecture here and there, sure. But no more being full time academic. Not here anyway!
3) I could hold on to become a professor but that's nearer 5 years than 2. And British universities are increasingly using the US system of calling everyone a professor (I'd be an Assistant Professor, in my present post) so there's little clarity these days in who does what, something that will get worse. And yes, you are right, the kudos would be great but i don't know if I could grit my teeth that long (very first world problem I know). Doesn't help that I outperformed all my Professors' in the REF, either. Makes a mockery of the seniority thing.
4) My university demands that, if you take a sabbatical, then you teach and lecture for an amount of time subsequently in order to compensate; a sort of 'return of service'. And the sabbaticals are 3 months in duration, once every three years. So there's no way I could combine the two.
5) Twig, you're probably right
I suppose the biggest thing for me is that I've never really taken a risk in my life, and if I don't take this one, not only will I think less of myself, I will always be thinking, 'what if?'
I hasten to add that this isn't a decsion to be made immediately, but certainly within the next 6 months or so.
Cheers all
Edited by Joey Ramone on Monday 17th March 09:46
Interested in this thread, as I am following a similar thought process (although earlier career). I'm a lecturer, 31 years old and am often wondering what it would be like to work in industry. Academics are often mis-understood by those in industry too, as we are more business development managers than teachers (I certainly am anyway, as my teaching load is less than 50 hours per year).
It is the final salary pension which is a very attractive reason to remain in academia- the fact I live 11 miles from work also helps, whereas the main opportunities for me would be in central London which is a 1.5 hour commute door-to-door. Moving into industry would possibly result in a slight pay cut, but the top earning potential exceeds that of academia. Here we have professors which start on £60k upwards (the management team profs are on north of £100k), but not everyone will get there.
Good luck in whatever decision you make.
It is the final salary pension which is a very attractive reason to remain in academia- the fact I live 11 miles from work also helps, whereas the main opportunities for me would be in central London which is a 1.5 hour commute door-to-door. Moving into industry would possibly result in a slight pay cut, but the top earning potential exceeds that of academia. Here we have professors which start on £60k upwards (the management team profs are on north of £100k), but not everyone will get there.
Good luck in whatever decision you make.
Many thanks
Oh yeah, my commute at present is 1/4 of a mile. That'll change! But my teaching/lecturing schedule appears a lot more intense than yours (not saying the overall workload is - just that aspect). And you're young, so you have time on your side. But I do have nightmares about the USS pension scheme imploding...
Academia is,I think, a great job if:
1) You have come from something else beforehand,possibly the private sector and are therefore well placed to understand how Academia compares. The happiest guys here have done that.
2)You love the subject you teach, and wish for nothing more than to study it in depth
3)You are excellent. I mean properly excellent. I meet some academics who are, quite frankly, pointless. Poor quality research and writing, poor quality teaching, poor quality people all round. Conversely, there are some that blow my mind and make the world a better place for their being in it. However, if I was one of the latter, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (thankfully, I'm not one of the former either, otherwise people wouldn't be trying to tempt me into their company)
Oh yeah, my commute at present is 1/4 of a mile. That'll change! But my teaching/lecturing schedule appears a lot more intense than yours (not saying the overall workload is - just that aspect). And you're young, so you have time on your side. But I do have nightmares about the USS pension scheme imploding...
Academia is,I think, a great job if:
1) You have come from something else beforehand,possibly the private sector and are therefore well placed to understand how Academia compares. The happiest guys here have done that.
2)You love the subject you teach, and wish for nothing more than to study it in depth
3)You are excellent. I mean properly excellent. I meet some academics who are, quite frankly, pointless. Poor quality research and writing, poor quality teaching, poor quality people all round. Conversely, there are some that blow my mind and make the world a better place for their being in it. However, if I was one of the latter, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (thankfully, I'm not one of the former either, otherwise people wouldn't be trying to tempt me into their company)
Edited by Joey Ramone on Monday 17th March 11:37
Have you thought of working for a bank?
We have relatively large teams of ex-profs, think tankers, governemnt officals who work for us and take care of government relations, political risk, political and policy anaylisis etc.
I'm sure most other large international banks will have such teams.
If you have any kind of specialism towards the US, with the run-up to the elections, you could probably sell yourself quite easily.
We have relatively large teams of ex-profs, think tankers, governemnt officals who work for us and take care of government relations, political risk, political and policy anaylisis etc.
I'm sure most other large international banks will have such teams.
If you have any kind of specialism towards the US, with the run-up to the elections, you could probably sell yourself quite easily.
I may drift that way at some point. The consultancy I would be going to is slightly more specific in that it works mainly with hedge funds and UHNWI's, but yes, that might be where I eventually land up.
Weird. Youa always hear of other people going through these dilemma's and think it will never happen to you. Until it does.
Weird. Youa always hear of other people going through these dilemma's and think it will never happen to you. Until it does.
Joey Ramone said:
Many thanks
Oh yeah, my commute at present is 1/4 of a mile. That'll change! But my teaching/lecturing schedule appears a lot more intense than yours (not saying the overall workload is - just that aspect). And you're young, so you have time on your side. But I do have nightmares about the USS pension scheme imploding...
Academia is,I think, a great job if:
1) You have come from something else beforehand,possibly the private sector and are therefore well placed to understand how Academia compares. The happiest guys here have done that.
2)You love the subject you teach, and wish for nothing more than to study it in depth
3)You are excellent. I mean properly excellent. I meet some academics who are, quite frankly, pointless. Poor quality research and writing, poor quality teaching, poor quality people all round. Conversely, there are some that blow my mind and make the world a better place for their being in it. However, if I was one of the latter, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (thankfully, I'm not one of the former either, otherwise people wouldn't be trying to tempt me into their company)
I work for a postgraduate-only University (there is only one...) so that explains the teaching load, but the reduced government funding applies the pressure elsewhere (research income).Oh yeah, my commute at present is 1/4 of a mile. That'll change! But my teaching/lecturing schedule appears a lot more intense than yours (not saying the overall workload is - just that aspect). And you're young, so you have time on your side. But I do have nightmares about the USS pension scheme imploding...
Academia is,I think, a great job if:
1) You have come from something else beforehand,possibly the private sector and are therefore well placed to understand how Academia compares. The happiest guys here have done that.
2)You love the subject you teach, and wish for nothing more than to study it in depth
3)You are excellent. I mean properly excellent. I meet some academics who are, quite frankly, pointless. Poor quality research and writing, poor quality teaching, poor quality people all round. Conversely, there are some that blow my mind and make the world a better place for their being in it. However, if I was one of the latter, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (thankfully, I'm not one of the former either, otherwise people wouldn't be trying to tempt me into their company)
1. I have industry experience, though low level operational stuff and mid-level local government
2. I'm pushing back more now so that I can work in areas that interest me and not just where the money is. Fortunately I work in an area which is quite good for that (waste management and renewable energy).
3. No comment!
Joey Ramone said:
Thoughts appreciated.
I'm in the fortunate position of having a well paid job (senior lecturer at a very good university, en route to becoming a Professor in the not too distant future). It's also a very safe job, and it has one of those very rare beasts as a perk: a final salary pension scheme. Only one problem. It's doing my nut in. For reasons too dreary to explain in any depth, the thought of working there for another 25 or so years makes me shrivel up inside. And not in a good way.
Last week I was offered a senior position within a small (but growing) consultancy firm that I occasionally do some work for. A very persuasive offer indeed. Good salary, a pension scheme of sorts, private medical, and annual bonus. The door is open for me. Problem being that it's in a very competitive, volatile sector (intelligence/political risk) and the risk (ironic, I know) of it going tits up is of an order of magnitude far greater than the same happening to my present employer, which will probably still be there when the Sun explodes.
Problem being that this isn't just my future I'm dicking with. My wife doesn't have great earning potential (mental health issues) so she's relying on me to pay the mortgage and provide for our retirement. My choice in the next few months could have huge implications either way. I can stay where I am, becoming increasingly unhappy but safe and secure. Or I could take this massive risk with her future. She, by the way, would follow me through the gates of hell so obviously I have been told that if I switch she will be behind me 100%. But she's not impartial. And if I leave academia, there's no going back. That door will be firmly closed by the University, and my specialisation is a narrow one, with very limited academic opportunities elsewhere in the country.
Anyone else taken this sort of jump? The sort of total, abrupt turn that promised either great success or ruin?
If you want my view, then stay put.I'm in the fortunate position of having a well paid job (senior lecturer at a very good university, en route to becoming a Professor in the not too distant future). It's also a very safe job, and it has one of those very rare beasts as a perk: a final salary pension scheme. Only one problem. It's doing my nut in. For reasons too dreary to explain in any depth, the thought of working there for another 25 or so years makes me shrivel up inside. And not in a good way.
Last week I was offered a senior position within a small (but growing) consultancy firm that I occasionally do some work for. A very persuasive offer indeed. Good salary, a pension scheme of sorts, private medical, and annual bonus. The door is open for me. Problem being that it's in a very competitive, volatile sector (intelligence/political risk) and the risk (ironic, I know) of it going tits up is of an order of magnitude far greater than the same happening to my present employer, which will probably still be there when the Sun explodes.
Problem being that this isn't just my future I'm dicking with. My wife doesn't have great earning potential (mental health issues) so she's relying on me to pay the mortgage and provide for our retirement. My choice in the next few months could have huge implications either way. I can stay where I am, becoming increasingly unhappy but safe and secure. Or I could take this massive risk with her future. She, by the way, would follow me through the gates of hell so obviously I have been told that if I switch she will be behind me 100%. But she's not impartial. And if I leave academia, there's no going back. That door will be firmly closed by the University, and my specialisation is a narrow one, with very limited academic opportunities elsewhere in the country.
Anyone else taken this sort of jump? The sort of total, abrupt turn that promised either great success or ruin?
You are providing for your family, you have security. The jobs market is very very bad at the moment.
As my grandad used to say, "If in doubt, do nowt".
Don't underestimate the value of being able to sleep at night.
TVR Sagaris said:
Have you considered semi-academic roles (somewhere like RUSI)?
Unfortunately, RUSI is one of those places where you end up if you're desperate and can't get an academic job anywhere respectable. Awful money too.And yes, I did apply for a job there when I was just starting out
Glad I didn't get it though.
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