Job move - big risk
Discussion
Blimey Joey...another M164'er (USAC code for Inter Pol & Sec Studies back in the day) 
Academic small world indeed, is it still only Aber, Kings, Wolves and Lancs covering it with the Oxbridge boys pretending they do via PPE?
Well I know how you feel, it was my first love back in the day and you have fared better than me. My love of history was well and truly beaten out of me by the end of the degree. To such a point that I left into the comp. sci world and as far away from history, etc as I could get. It took me 10 yrs before any feeling for the subject came back, unfortunately I could never escape Hobbes, Waltz et co lurking in the back of my mind and I retained and burning desire to kick the living s
t out of Francis Kukyama for the last 2 decades.
Anyway muggins advice from a chap who has done your academic route...get the fk out of Dodge whilst you can.
Academic small world indeed, is it still only Aber, Kings, Wolves and Lancs covering it with the Oxbridge boys pretending they do via PPE?
Well I know how you feel, it was my first love back in the day and you have fared better than me. My love of history was well and truly beaten out of me by the end of the degree. To such a point that I left into the comp. sci world and as far away from history, etc as I could get. It took me 10 yrs before any feeling for the subject came back, unfortunately I could never escape Hobbes, Waltz et co lurking in the back of my mind and I retained and burning desire to kick the living s
t out of Francis Kukyama for the last 2 decades.Anyway muggins advice from a chap who has done your academic route...get the f
k out of Dodge whilst you can.
Joey Ramone said:
Unfortunately, RUSI is one of those places where you end up if you're desperate and can't get an academic job anywhere respectable. Awful money too.
And yes, I did apply for a job there when I was just starting out
Glad I didn't get it though.
Haha! Fair enough; I only mentioned it because a friend of mine (just MSc, no PhD which may make a difference) works there and seems to enjoy it.And yes, I did apply for a job there when I was just starting out
Glad I didn't get it though.
I'm surprised that there would be so little chance of permanently getting back in to a university if you decide to leave now. Why are they so against people taking breaks? And if you perform well in the REF, surely they would want to keep hold of you?
The problem is that they would only hire me back if they could include me in the 2018 REF. I probably have two pieces of the four required already but a full time job in an entirely different industry will take me right out of the research loop.I reckon a REF'able article in a high quality journal takes about 4 months to a year to write. Add another year for the peer review system to kick in, and then maybe another year before publication and you begin to see the problem. The other issue is that they would probably demand another book as part of the submission.If I stayed in I could write it, if I leave then no chance.
In fact the REF,and the 'impact' requirement that our work is now meant to have is one reason why I want to leave. It has turned academia into a game, the only winners being those that can bang out research that claims to be listened to by policymakers/Govt/etc. Total bullst. And completely antithetical to high quality output, particularly in book form.
In fact the REF,and the 'impact' requirement that our work is now meant to have is one reason why I want to leave. It has turned academia into a game, the only winners being those that can bang out research that claims to be listened to by policymakers/Govt/etc. Total bulls
t. And completely antithetical to high quality output, particularly in book form.So unless I've missed something, you're currently very unhappy and you have a good, workable and financially viable alternative...
Seriously, what's there to think about? It's not a dress rehearsal!
You must also remember that the option you're considering is also not your one and only option, once out of academia you may discover a whole world of opportunity.
Is there any chance of regret? You current hate your job / situation - why would you ever regret leaving that...
Seriously, what's there to think about? It's not a dress rehearsal!
You must also remember that the option you're considering is also not your one and only option, once out of academia you may discover a whole world of opportunity.
Is there any chance of regret? You current hate your job / situation - why would you ever regret leaving that...
It's just the risk, mate. I'm in a small pond at present, but there's no predators. Safe as houses. Out there's the ocean. May swim, may sink. Bit sobering, that's all.
If I had a PhD in maths or economics I wouldn't be so bothered. A humanities PhD and a career to date in academia is almost a recipe fur unemployment in the real world!
I appreciate your points though. Spoke to my boss today - he was sympathetic and asked me to keep him informed. I've asked for 2yrs unpaid leave but i can almost guarantee it will be refused by the university hierarchy
If I had a PhD in maths or economics I wouldn't be so bothered. A humanities PhD and a career to date in academia is almost a recipe fur unemployment in the real world!
I appreciate your points though. Spoke to my boss today - he was sympathetic and asked me to keep him informed. I've asked for 2yrs unpaid leave but i can almost guarantee it will be refused by the university hierarchy
Sounds like you're looking for hiding places, they are just excuses really though, if you're honest?
You're a long time dead, and so what if it goes tits - there's always something you'll be able to do for you and your family, educated people can normally be resourceful in making things work
You're a long time dead, and so what if it goes tits - there's always something you'll be able to do for you and your family, educated people can normally be resourceful in making things work
I'm also in education but in the primary school sector. I'm currently a Principal Teacher and would love to move into Further Education but as yet, I haven't seen any vacancies advertised. From memory, not many of the lecturers on my PGCE course were doctors so I remain hopeful that a vacancy will arise that does not stipulate the need for a PhD.
All the best in your new job - it must be a very good offer for you to consider a move given your current salary and conditions.
All the best in your new job - it must be a very good offer for you to consider a move given your current salary and conditions.
Martin_M said:
I'm also in education but in the primary school sector. I'm currently a Principal Teacher and would love to move into Further Education but as yet, I haven't seen any vacancies advertised. From memory, not many of the lecturers on my PGCE course were doctors so I remain hopeful that a vacancy will arise that does not stipulate the need for a PhD.
All the best in your new job - it must be a very good offer for you to consider a move given your current salary and conditions.
My current salary and conditions are very generous. But they really don't compensate for the feeling of jaded boredom. Hence the potential move.All the best in your new job - it must be a very good offer for you to consider a move given your current salary and conditions.
10 years ago I would have chewed my own arm off to be where I am now. Yet now I'm here, I realise that something's missing. So as you contemplate a move onwards and upwards, bear my experience in mind!
I'll be honest. The guy offering me the job (I know him and trust him) has promised to make me a lot of money. But hand on heart, it's not really about the money in the sense of any materialistic need on my part, but the security it offers. If I can make money, I can pay off my mortgage quickly and then properly relax for the first time in about 20 years. It's about that, rather than buying flash motors and showy watches*. But that desire for security works both ways obviously. Not a risk taker by nature, not when it comes to money.
Anyway, I'll keep you peeps updated. Cheers for the words of advice/encouragement.
- Alright, maybe a Panerai PAM0388 but that's it, honest.
1st Post: New boy.
Right, I was involved in a company that was working with a university, and the Professor we were dealing with had a Part-time, consultancy position at a specialist engineering company, and the University basically allowed him to declare how many hours he'd not worked for them in the month, and this was reflected in his salary in the next month.
I assume that the work you do with the new company would help in your understanding of the real world back in academia, so would they both go for employment of a more flexible nature ?
Right, I was involved in a company that was working with a university, and the Professor we were dealing with had a Part-time, consultancy position at a specialist engineering company, and the University basically allowed him to declare how many hours he'd not worked for them in the month, and this was reflected in his salary in the next month.
I assume that the work you do with the new company would help in your understanding of the real world back in academia, so would they both go for employment of a more flexible nature ?
Martin M: Difficult, I think. Certainly going back to my original institution. Taking more than a year or two out will screw up my chances of producing the necessary output for the next university sector audit (the so-called 'REF'). Basically, research rankings are so important now for certain uni's that they focus almost solely upon a candidate's track record and future prospects in that respect.
Pit Pony: We are allowed, contractually, to do 30 days consulting a year. However, there appears little flexibility beyond that. You certainly can't split your time. It is interesting to note that two senior academics here were forced to resign recently because the University would not allow them to take time out to pursue teaching opportunities in the Gulf. The reason given was 'potential reputational damage'. It's pretty certain that the same reason would be given to me when they found out about the sort of work done by the shady bunch of hoods that have offered me a position.
Joke. Not shady. But not to a prim university's taste, either.
Pit Pony: We are allowed, contractually, to do 30 days consulting a year. However, there appears little flexibility beyond that. You certainly can't split your time. It is interesting to note that two senior academics here were forced to resign recently because the University would not allow them to take time out to pursue teaching opportunities in the Gulf. The reason given was 'potential reputational damage'. It's pretty certain that the same reason would be given to me when they found out about the sort of work done by the shady bunch of hoods that have offered me a position.
Joke. Not shady. But not to a prim university's taste, either.
Edited by Joey Ramone on Thursday 20th March 23:43
Edited by Joey Ramone on Thursday 20th March 23:44
Thought I would give an update.
I have formally accepted the offer of a job with the new consultancy. I start full-time in January, although I'm effectively working for them over July/August/September. In fact they're sending me abroad for most of August.
My present employer has, surprisingly, been most understanding and has given me two years unpaid leave, effectively holding my position open for me to return at the end of that period. I doubt I will, though, unless the new job is awful. I really don't want to go back to the University sector.
My salary will be effectively doubled, I will have private healthcare provision and all travel costs met. However, the pension will be far less generous, and the commuting far more arduous. On that point though, having a short commute to a job you hate is a very false economy indeed.
I'm excited. It's a weight off my shoulders and I can look forward to the future now, rather than just shrivel up from a combination of boredom, apathy and repressed self - loathing.
I have formally accepted the offer of a job with the new consultancy. I start full-time in January, although I'm effectively working for them over July/August/September. In fact they're sending me abroad for most of August.
My present employer has, surprisingly, been most understanding and has given me two years unpaid leave, effectively holding my position open for me to return at the end of that period. I doubt I will, though, unless the new job is awful. I really don't want to go back to the University sector.
My salary will be effectively doubled, I will have private healthcare provision and all travel costs met. However, the pension will be far less generous, and the commuting far more arduous. On that point though, having a short commute to a job you hate is a very false economy indeed.
I'm excited. It's a weight off my shoulders and I can look forward to the future now, rather than just shrivel up from a combination of boredom, apathy and repressed self - loathing.
Yeah, my new head of dept was excellent. His reasoning was, 'I can either secure you two years unpaid leave and have a chance of getting you back, or I can not bother, and I'll never see you again'. He's also done shedloads of consulting and understands that doing something different and getting well rewarded for it isn't actually a crime. Some of my colleagues are seething with jealousy it has to be said. Not because they would like my new job per se, but simply because I got off my arse and found a way out and they simply can't figure out how to do the same thing.
I'm not smug though. The new venture may not work out for me, and I may end up back at the old place. And they're good people underneath it all.
I'm not smug though. The new venture may not work out for me, and I may end up back at the old place. And they're good people underneath it all.
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