Got an offer for a job. Recruitment guy seems a little pushy
Discussion
aizvara said:
I've had a similar experience - had an interview and it went very well.
That afternoon I was out meeting a friend and had a phone call from the agency saying I'd been offered the job. I said I had another interview the following week, and I'd make up my mind after that. That didn't go down well, and I was repeatedly called throughout that afternoon. They claimed that there was another candidate and the company were in a hurry to employ one or other of us.
Which didn't leave me any time to discuss the job or the relocating it would require with my girlfriend. They kept pushing even when I explained all that, escalating up to the "agency manager" contacting me and saying I'd lose the offer unless I said I'd accept it that day. If it wasn't for the fact that I'd been out of work for a while, I'd have told them where to go.
As it turned out there was no other candidate, and no massive hurry to hire from the company itself. The whole thing was just another example of my own naivety - one day I'll learn.
That is pretty bad!That afternoon I was out meeting a friend and had a phone call from the agency saying I'd been offered the job. I said I had another interview the following week, and I'd make up my mind after that. That didn't go down well, and I was repeatedly called throughout that afternoon. They claimed that there was another candidate and the company were in a hurry to employ one or other of us.
Which didn't leave me any time to discuss the job or the relocating it would require with my girlfriend. They kept pushing even when I explained all that, escalating up to the "agency manager" contacting me and saying I'd lose the offer unless I said I'd accept it that day. If it wasn't for the fact that I'd been out of work for a while, I'd have told them where to go.
As it turned out there was no other candidate, and no massive hurry to hire from the company itself. The whole thing was just another example of my own naivety - one day I'll learn.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I have thought about accepting their offer for the duration of the probation period. Then if they are happy with my performance we can move up a few k.
YMMV, but I would never accept a deal like that. No-one wants to suddenly start paying more for something they were getting for less, plus you will almost certainly be working harder during the initial period anyway, if only to get up to speed on what they are doing.OP -
Firstly congratulations on you having lots of interest, I hope this means you end up with a job you really like with a great future.
Secondly - tell the recruitment agent you are after the 35k on this role(plus any extras?)that was originally on the table. That's what you think you are worth. Get him to be pushy on your behalf and sell you instead of the other way round!
I don't think it's a bad thing you told him him you also have some irons in the fire (just don't add too many details), and that need to get these interviews out the way before making a decision, as long as it's not too long. More than 1-2 weeks leaving an employer hanging is a bit rude! it does show these people you are a good catch and worth your asking price if you are getting this many interviews.
I'd be very surprised if a hiring company would try this move by putting a time limit on an offer, it's more likely an agent wanting to close an offer down.
Finally - there's no law that says you can't verbally (even if you sign a contract if you really don't care about your name in the industry) accept an offer and pull out if you get a better offer down the line, so in reality you can keep your options open right to the last minute. But remember interviews don't always mean jobs so be careful holding out for the perfect role at the expense of everythign else.
Firstly congratulations on you having lots of interest, I hope this means you end up with a job you really like with a great future.
Secondly - tell the recruitment agent you are after the 35k on this role(plus any extras?)that was originally on the table. That's what you think you are worth. Get him to be pushy on your behalf and sell you instead of the other way round!
I don't think it's a bad thing you told him him you also have some irons in the fire (just don't add too many details), and that need to get these interviews out the way before making a decision, as long as it's not too long. More than 1-2 weeks leaving an employer hanging is a bit rude! it does show these people you are a good catch and worth your asking price if you are getting this many interviews.
I'd be very surprised if a hiring company would try this move by putting a time limit on an offer, it's more likely an agent wanting to close an offer down.
Finally - there's no law that says you can't verbally (even if you sign a contract if you really don't care about your name in the industry) accept an offer and pull out if you get a better offer down the line, so in reality you can keep your options open right to the last minute. But remember interviews don't always mean jobs so be careful holding out for the perfect role at the expense of everythign else.
Cheers Prand
The two interviews are this week, so in all likelihood, if I can get in some serious questions of my own at them I should be in a position to decide which way to turn by Friday. So slightly less than one working week.
Who knows what will happen, Company B in Brixworth had basically read a 3 line description of me in their contracted recruitment agencies news letter and immediately got on the phone to them. For all I know I have been made out to be something I am not and it'll be a no go. But I would at least like the opportunity of finding out and not be left wondering what if. As for Company C, this is a large company and I have basically managed to get my CV passed round to various people through inside contacts, and at some stage someone in the right line of work had taken interest. It may well be that they don't have a full position but want to get me onside or into a team for a while until they know what to do with me. It wasn't apparent from the guy I spoke with that there was a defined vacancy going. But again, I'd like to know what the deal is so I can make a judgement.
The two interviews are this week, so in all likelihood, if I can get in some serious questions of my own at them I should be in a position to decide which way to turn by Friday. So slightly less than one working week.
Who knows what will happen, Company B in Brixworth had basically read a 3 line description of me in their contracted recruitment agencies news letter and immediately got on the phone to them. For all I know I have been made out to be something I am not and it'll be a no go. But I would at least like the opportunity of finding out and not be left wondering what if. As for Company C, this is a large company and I have basically managed to get my CV passed round to various people through inside contacts, and at some stage someone in the right line of work had taken interest. It may well be that they don't have a full position but want to get me onside or into a team for a while until they know what to do with me. It wasn't apparent from the guy I spoke with that there was a defined vacancy going. But again, I'd like to know what the deal is so I can make a judgement.
singlecoil said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
I have thought about accepting their offer for the duration of the probation period. Then if they are happy with my performance we can move up a few k.
YMMV, but I would never accept a deal like that. No-one wants to suddenly start paying more for something they were getting for less, plus you will almost certainly be working harder during the initial period anyway, if only to get up to speed on what they are doing.Been in touch with a mate of mine who essentially went down this route a year or two ago. He's a cheeky bugger though and managed to pry out nearly 40K. He is very very good though so the ball was in his court.
The big plus to this job is the distance from my current residence. Its a 10-15 minute drive down some country lanes. Ideal. However, we are moving house when this place sells so that may not remain. At worst its a short term plus point.
It is worth mentioning that the company who made the offer is rather small in relative terms. I am not sure of their actual turn over or profits, but I'd suggest the head engineer probably hasn't got that much dough to play with so I do have to bare in mind that they just can't afford it.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 7th April 19:38
OP - congratulations on your offer. Hope your partner secures something soon.
There are 2 things to know:
There are 2 things to know:
- RAs are on the whole viewed by many as low life verminisalised scum - for a reason. However, there are some very good ones out there. Tell your RA that "you need the £35K". By the time the pair of you have "danced" AND s/he submits the eventual offer in s-nail mail, you will have interviewed at the other prospective employers..............you have no decision to make until you have a written offer in your hand.
- You seem to have 3 opportunities on the boil BUT the latter 2 of them could go cold quickly. Ensure you do not let the 1st one go cold on you, whilst eyeing up the other 2.
Sure the ra wants his dough and for you to accept, but you really should tell him you wanted a lot more. Then, if he's any good, he can negotiate upwards for you, and at least come back with a better offer. That buys you a couple of days at least to get the other interviews under your belt.
It's not fair on the first co to drag it out for more than a week after the offer, that just says you're not serious about things, unless you are negotiating with them during that time. Unless it's a dream job, you do need a day or so to go over each offer/counter offer, and the ra shiould help you with this.
Be careful though, offers can and are withdrawn, but you should have a couple of days grace before that happens here. Just one final thing - are people with your skill set in high demand? If yes, then you have more control here than you think.
It's not fair on the first co to drag it out for more than a week after the offer, that just says you're not serious about things, unless you are negotiating with them during that time. Unless it's a dream job, you do need a day or so to go over each offer/counter offer, and the ra shiould help you with this.
Be careful though, offers can and are withdrawn, but you should have a couple of days grace before that happens here. Just one final thing - are people with your skill set in high demand? If yes, then you have more control here than you think.
Your profile says : MEng Mechanical Engineer (1st Class Hons). Currently doing a doctorate.
You are (probably) worth MORE than £35K and the RC knows this.
The RC is watching his commission sailing away. Not surprising he's clutching at straws.
Do all other Engineers and pursue the other options, and try being a bit more '2 faced'.
By that I mean, one option would have been to tell him that in principle you want the job, but only at £40K, and then it's in his court for a couple of days. Then when he comes back at £38K, tell him in principle YES, but you need to see the T&C's first. Then question a few things on the contract.
That gets you 7 days without telling him you've got other irons in the fire. Then when you get another offer, you can play them against the first.
You are (probably) worth MORE than £35K and the RC knows this.
The RC is watching his commission sailing away. Not surprising he's clutching at straws.
Do all other Engineers and pursue the other options, and try being a bit more '2 faced'.
By that I mean, one option would have been to tell him that in principle you want the job, but only at £40K, and then it's in his court for a couple of days. Then when he comes back at £38K, tell him in principle YES, but you need to see the T&C's first. Then question a few things on the contract.
That gets you 7 days without telling him you've got other irons in the fire. Then when you get another offer, you can play them against the first.
40's a bit high i think mate! I know advertised at between 35-55k (top end is way too high for me) i may ask for the minimum of 35 but realistically i hoped for somewhere inbetween that and 30.
At company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
At company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
Verbally accept everything you get til you get offered the one you want. Then tell the others you've gone elsewhere.
I was offered a role recently, verbally accepted, carried on interviewing at the other firm, took them 3 weeks but they offered, I took that, signed the papers and told the first place I had changed my mind.
I was offered a role recently, verbally accepted, carried on interviewing at the other firm, took them 3 weeks but they offered, I took that, signed the papers and told the first place I had changed my mind.
Otispunkmeyer said:
40's a bit high i think mate! I know advertised at between 35-55k (top end is way too high for me) i may ask for the minimum of 35 but realistically i hoped for somewhere inbetween that and 30.
At company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
That attitude is why engineers make sAt company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
t money compared to other professions. FFS play hardball. They want you and they can afford £55K. Why are you, young and up to date, enthusiastic, hard working, with a little experience, not worthy. Now bullst that you are. Sounds like he is playing you, so that he gets his commission. With all the interest I don't think you will have a problem finding the role you want!
How about accepting the job and then going to the other interviews anyway, I assume it will not be an immediate start, so if you did get another job you could just say I have had a better offer?
Nice having a lot of interest, good on you
How about accepting the job and then going to the other interviews anyway, I assume it will not be an immediate start, so if you did get another job you could just say I have had a better offer?
Nice having a lot of interest, good on you
Sorry, the role is advertised at 35-55 and you are worried about asking for £30k? (or is that a package to £55K (i.e. 30k basic + pension + car + bonus etc). I always ask for the full whack, don't always get it mind.
Clarify what the full package is then ask for more money. That will buy you some time.
Oh, and do you have the offer in writing or at least an email? If you don't then it's not an offer I'd give any credibility to.
Clarify what the full package is then ask for more money. That will buy you some time.
Oh, and do you have the offer in writing or at least an email? If you don't then it's not an offer I'd give any credibility to.
Had similar recently.
Interview with company A, nice guys, interesting-ish work, money a bit weak. I told them that I am currently on £X (truthfully - I should have padded it) and would not work for them for any less than £X+3k, and that they should demonstrate that they specifically wanted me.
While they were thinking, I had an interview with company B, more interesting work and probably a better long term fit. I told them the same (on £X, want £X+3k, etc)
Recruiter for B comes back with an offer of £X+6k and there's a bonus scheme on top that usually pays out 12-15%. I accepted subject to detailed T&Cs.
Recruiter for A calls me three hours later. "I'm really excited about this, they're going to make you an offer and it's a chance for you to get into this great industry and working for some people you really liked..." £X+320.
They couldn't understand why I had taken the other job, why I was accepting it, and why I would have turned them down out of hand anyway. "They've really pulled out the stops on this offer!"
No. They haven't. They were given a minimum and have failed to get close. They're welcome to try again on the money but they will need to have a proper stab at it and £320 is not it.
They then called me back the following day - £X+£620. Their final offer, etc.
This agent was a muppet. Nice enough person, but if you can't understand that you are £5k behind the market then WTF? Even without the offer from B I would have told them to stuff it, if you tell them "I need this" and they can't get the company that you'd be working for to listen, would you really want to work for that company?
Interview with company A, nice guys, interesting-ish work, money a bit weak. I told them that I am currently on £X (truthfully - I should have padded it) and would not work for them for any less than £X+3k, and that they should demonstrate that they specifically wanted me.
While they were thinking, I had an interview with company B, more interesting work and probably a better long term fit. I told them the same (on £X, want £X+3k, etc)
Recruiter for B comes back with an offer of £X+6k and there's a bonus scheme on top that usually pays out 12-15%. I accepted subject to detailed T&Cs.
Recruiter for A calls me three hours later. "I'm really excited about this, they're going to make you an offer and it's a chance for you to get into this great industry and working for some people you really liked..." £X+320.
They couldn't understand why I had taken the other job, why I was accepting it, and why I would have turned them down out of hand anyway. "They've really pulled out the stops on this offer!"
No. They haven't. They were given a minimum and have failed to get close. They're welcome to try again on the money but they will need to have a proper stab at it and £320 is not it.
They then called me back the following day - £X+£620. Their final offer, etc.
This agent was a muppet. Nice enough person, but if you can't understand that you are £5k behind the market then WTF? Even without the offer from B I would have told them to stuff it, if you tell them "I need this" and they can't get the company that you'd be working for to listen, would you really want to work for that company?
Otispunkmeyer said:
40's a bit high i think mate! I know advertised at between 35-55k (top end is way too high for me) i may ask for the minimum of 35 but realistically i hoped for somewhere inbetween that and 30.
At company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
Why are you happy to go in below the advertised range? If I applied for a job with a salary range then the bottom end of the scale is the very minimum I would discuss- anything below is them trying it on. I see the range as £35k for a person of suitable skills but with the minimum experience. The top end is for people who have been doing that role for several years.At company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
You ARE worth £35k at least. I'd tell the recruiter that if they offer £40k then you will consider dropping the other interviews. Otherwise they can wait and hope.
Pit Pony said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
40's a bit high i think mate! I know advertised at between 35-55k (top end is way too high for me) i may ask for the minimum of 35 but realistically i hoped for somewhere inbetween that and 30.
At company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
That attitude is why engineers make sAt company B these salaries are apparently very strong. There is an element of doing it for love of motorsport i think and the name is prestigious so that's the trade off. As I said it might not be a goer but I at least want to know.
t money compared to other professions. FFS play hardball. They want you and they can afford £55K. Why are you, young and up to date, enthusiastic, hard working, with a little experience, not worthy. Now bullst that you are. I became a contractor because it was the only way I was ever going to earn decent money. It's hard to ask an employer for more money when he/she knows that there are plenty of other well qualified candidates who are prepared to work for 30-35K in a job that in most other profesions would be 45-50K.
OP, if you want 40K, then ask for 40K. If they don't want to pay that then fine. You are highly qualifed in a field that has a very serious skills shortage. There will be other jobs.
Go in with the attitude that you are doing them a favor by even considering them as potential employers.
OP the fact that you have 3 interviews shows (particularly in this market and given your relative lack of experience) that your skills are very much in demand. Company A will have budgeted 35k-55k for this position, and they want YOU to fill it, they wouldn't have made an offer otherwise. The RA won't get his commission if you say no, so be brave and tell him to negotiate you a better deal. He knows now that you have 2 other companies interested and this could help him negotiate with Company A on your behalf.
Remember they have the budget for this position, at least start the negotiation at mid-range (£45k) and work from there. As the RA knows about your other interviews now, there's no harm in letting him know how well these went either!
You're in a really strong position here, you don't need to take the mick, but push for what you're worth (and as they've offered you the position, thats somewhere in the 35-55k range).
Good luck.
Remember they have the budget for this position, at least start the negotiation at mid-range (£45k) and work from there. As the RA knows about your other interviews now, there's no harm in letting him know how well these went either!
You're in a really strong position here, you don't need to take the mick, but push for what you're worth (and as they've offered you the position, thats somewhere in the 35-55k range).
Good luck.
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