Change to employment contract

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wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,542 posts

270 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Hi,

Received an email last week (sent to all employees) stating that we would be receiving new contracts of employment today, which I have just received and been asked to sign and return by the end of the month. However, I have a few issues with points that differ to my current contract:

1. It states my date of commencement with the company is 01/05/2014 and this is the start date of continuous employment (I joined in 2008)

2. It states that by signing I am opting out of the working time directive

3. The paid bank holidays are named (meaning I wouldn't automatically be entitled to any additional public holidays)

4. My notice period (on both sides) changes from 1 to 3 months

2 and 3 aren't big issues, but I'm not entirely sure of the impact of 1 around things like redundancy rights etc. Am I effectively being rerecruited into my existing role? And I really don't want to be tied to a 3 month notice period, although this is quite common for someone at my level.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the impact of point 1, and whether I have any option but to agree to these changes, which don't appear to bring any benefit to me but do to my employer?

TIA

Engineer1

10,486 posts

208 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
1. could cause you issues redundancy, paternity leave, and other rights kick in with service, signing away 6 years service seems like a bad deal.

driver67

976 posts

164 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
This sounds like bad news all round.

Were these changes consulted on with the workforce ?

Is it worded as a variation of contract ?

If you do not accept, then continue turning up for work after the new contract date, you will have implied acceptance of the terms.

Also, they must terminate your existing contract. Dodgy stuff.

You'd be best consulting with an employment law specialist.

eddy209

22 posts

127 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Hi - this has the potential to cause problems. Employment contracts are subject to ordinary contractual rules. Change must clearly both be agreed by both parties.
If you decide not to sign, make it know, (instigate a complaint) though the employers grievance procedure as soon as possible. Potentially, if you are aware of the change and continue to work under it then you may have impliedly agreed to the change.

I'd be a bit careful about signing it. The notice period can be a pain; good if you feel your job is at threat but a bit of a nightmare if you are looking for a new role. I have the same and 3months notice is....annoying. As the poster above said - check statutory rights. You may lose your right to claim unfair dismissal (now a 2 year qualification period).
Get it in writing that your period of employment is the full time you have been there from your HR department (if you have one).



bga

8,134 posts

250 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
  1. 's 2-4 look OK to me.
  1. 1 has important ramifications as has been mentioned before.

driver67

976 posts

164 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all

wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,542 posts

270 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Thanks all for the advice and comments. I'm going to digest things a little more over the bank holiday but it does sound like a few things that should have been done haven't been. My biggest concern is the new start date which, as you've pointed out, affects a number of my rights as an employee.

Thanks again

Sonic

4,007 posts

206 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
This sounds a bit dodgy to me. You need clarification on whether this is a completely new contract (which is what it sounds like) or an amendment to your existing contract (but then why a new start date?!).

1. This would affect things like redundancy and contracted notice. E.g. if you are made redundant now you are owed 6-years worth of redundancy, if you are made redundant on 02/05/14 then you would not be owed anything as your employment date started on 01/05/14 according to your contract.

2. I don't think they can bind this into your main contract of employment as it has to be optional.

E.g. taken from http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/working-time-limits-the...

"If you are 18 or over and wish to work more than 48 hours a week, you can choose to opt out of the 48-hour limit. This must be voluntary and in writing. It can't be an agreement with the whole workforce and you shouldn't be sacked or subjected to discrimination or disadvantaged, like being refused promotion or overtime for refusing to sign an opt-out.

If you sign an opt-out, you have the right to cancel this agreement at any time by giving between one week and three months' notice. You can agree this notice period with your employer when you sign the opt-out. You can cancel an opt-out even if it's part of a contract you've signed."

3. Is this different from your current contract? It sounds like your employer is trying to tighten down the holiday entitlement of the workforce.

4. Is the notice period set at 1 and 3 months in the old/new contracts respectively, regardless of time employed?

Grumfutock

5,274 posts

164 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
This made a question occur to me. I believe if premise move then a company can re-write/issue a new contract but if nothing changes can they just rewrite it on a whim, without consulting an employee?

Sonic

4,007 posts

206 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Grumfutock said:
This made a question occur to me. I believe if premise move then a company can re-write/issue a new contract but if nothing changes can they just rewrite it on a whim, without consulting an employee?
Not exactly.

An employer could relocate their office and that may or may not be covered under an existing employment contract (see mobility clause), however if the move is outside of the mobility clause or there is no mobility clause then it would require a contractual change. If the relocation is deemed as "unreasonable" (an entirely subjective term) then you might disagree with the relocation without recompense smile

An employer can make contractual changes at any time, but an employee does not have to agree to the changes. The employer may then choose to make the employee redundant if they do not agree to the changes.

Grumfutock

5,274 posts

164 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Sonic said:
An employer can make contractual changes at any time, but an employee does not have to agree to the changes. The employer may then choose to make the employee redundant if they do not agree to the changes.
Dirty bds! Really? They can do that? Well at least it would be redundancy I guess.


Sonic

4,007 posts

206 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Of course the employee might not agree with the decision, in which case they may well object and ultimately end up at an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal.

The key point is that if you continue to work under the new contract without saying anything then it may well be deemed as acceptance.

Have a read of https://www.gov.uk/your-employment-contract-how-it...

Grumfutock

5,274 posts

164 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
But what if they change it but don't tell the employee? Must it be signed to be in effect?

wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,542 posts

270 months

Friday 25th April 2014
quotequote all
Sonic said:
This sounds a bit dodgy to me. You need clarification on whether this is a completely new contract (which is what it sounds like) or an amendment to your existing contract (but then why a new start date?!).

1. This would affect things like redundancy and contracted notice. E.g. if you are made redundant now you are owed 6-years worth of redundancy, if you are made redundant on 02/05/14 then you would not be owed anything as your employment date started on 01/05/14 according to your contract.

2. I don't think they can bind this into your main contract of employment as it has to be optional.

E.g. taken from http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/working-time-limits-the...

"If you are 18 or over and wish to work more than 48 hours a week, you can choose to opt out of the 48-hour limit. This must be voluntary and in writing. It can't be an agreement with the whole workforce and you shouldn't be sacked or subjected to discrimination or disadvantaged, like being refused promotion or overtime for refusing to sign an opt-out.

If you sign an opt-out, you have the right to cancel this agreement at any time by giving between one week and three months' notice. You can agree this notice period with your employer when you sign the opt-out. You can cancel an opt-out even if it's part of a contract you've signed."

3. Is this different from your current contract? It sounds like your employer is trying to tighten down the holiday entitlement of the workforce.

4. Is the notice period set at 1 and 3 months in the old/new contracts respectively, regardless of time employed?
Thanks for the feedback.

1. appears to have been a typo is everyone's new contracts, which have now been re-issued.

2. I will be discussing later today as I think the only issue with the opt-out is that my contract states I must give 3 months' notice, and your link (and others) state it must be between 7 days and 3 months.

3. It is different as my old contract stated that I would be paid for all public holidays. Not a big deal.

4. It is, yes. And this is the main point now that I am unhappy about and will be discussing with my manager today. This provides me with practically no benefit (I have a certain amount of insurance against redundancy).

Thanks to all for the advice here.