company taking car allowance away

[norwichbrian]

phil-sti said:

Seriously, he would have to have a good reason as it has a good capacity, it's a van and is cheaper across the board than a vivaro.

Ask the question.

Waiting for legal advice from my union, company boss also owns the Vauxhall dealership so probably getting shafted.

[UpTheIron]

Best of luck... given the picture you have painted I'd be tempted to try and negotiate something amicable (take the van and ask for a small pay increase), or take the van and start looking for a new job.

How many others are in the same situation?

What if you were offered a car allowance to the same amount as the van is going to cost the company (which, if he owns the Vauxhall dealer too could be next to nothing)?

I also don't go along with the "what could I get for £XXX, I do 36k/year, can't least anything" argument. Plenty of 4/5/6 year old cars that will do the job.

Sorry to sound so negative, it's just I struggle to see a happy ending!

[norwichbrian]

UpTheIron said:

Best of luck... given the picture you have painted I'd be tempted to try and negotiate something amicable (take the van and ask for a small pay increase), or take the van and start looking for a new job.

How many others are in the same situation?

What if you were offered a car allowance to the same amount as the van is going to cost the company (which, if he owns the Vauxhall dealer too could be next to nothing)?

I also don't go along with the "what could I get for £XXX, I do 36k/year, can't least anything" argument. Plenty of 4/5/6 year old cars that will do the job.

Sorry to sound so negative, it's just I struggle to see a happy ending!

I know they can do the job, you know they can do the job but the company refuse to budge. We have about 40 guys in same situation but the company are picking us off one by one, no general announcement made. Hopefully a compromise can be reached or I will be stacking shelves.

[dudleybloke]

40 vans left at the company when not being used should cause enough grief for management to reconsider.

[Muzzer79]

Do you have a company car policy?

Ours states that the company can withdraw the allowance at any time, etc, etc

I'm struggling to see why you can't take the van and keep a shed for family duties tbh, save for the fact that the van will not be secure overnight, in your opinion. The latter is the company's problem really?

[dave_s13]

It's not as simple as you bring £300 per month worse off is it?

Surely it's offset by you now using a works van for 36k/year at no cost to you.

[98elise]

norwichbrian said:

Muzzer79 said:

A company vehicle is just that- a tool for doing your job

If the company therefore deem that a van is more suitable then, unless you have a specific type of vehicle mentioned in your contract, you would need to live with it IMO

It is a perk in that it's also your family car, but that's of no concern to the company

I'd negotiate a bit more cash possibly but expect to suck it up

Could not agree more, but the company has changed the role.

Its entirely dependant on the persons contract. The last company I worked for everyone above a certain grade got a company car or an allowance. I was based in london and was told that I had to take the allowance over a car, as it was deemed that london based people didn't need the car for work purposes. People in the regions could take either.

In my case the car/allowance was simply a part of the package and was not a tool of the job in any way.

[williaa68]

The union is a good place to start and I am pleased you are in one. It sounds like you are working for a reasonable sized company so most likely they have a formal grievance process. Take advice from the union and then submit a grievance. It is important to do this as formally as you can as if you suffer any retaliation having done so you will gain additional protection. If the union don't come up with the goods, have a look at your household insurance policy and see if you have legal expenses insurance. Look at all the angles - eg if it is only longer serving employees then it would be indirect age discrimination. Good luck.

[anonymous-user]

hman said:

...

Speak to HR about this, maybe mention a feeling I constructive dismissal and see what happens from there.

...

This is nowhere near a constructive dismissal situation.

[davepoth]

Breadvan72 said:

hman said:

...

Speak to HR about this, maybe mention a feeling I constructive dismissal and see what happens from there.

...

This is nowhere near a constructive dismissal situation.

But I'd think suggesting it is constructive dismissal starts you down a road that might lead to "a fundamental breakdown of trust and confidence between employer and employee", leading to a possibly fair dismissal. Don't rock the boat IMO, it's not as if you're being told to walk to work.

[jonah35]

Guys I think Norwich Brian has a point. It states in his contract he gets either a car or car allowance. Both are being withdrawn.

You need legal advice here because if they supply you with a van then could that be classed as a car or car allowance.

Grey area.

[anonymous-user]

I am an employment lawyer, so thanks for the lecture, but no thanks. It's not a grey area. This is nothing like a constructive dismissal.

The OP is being offered a van. Even if he could quibble that a van is not a car within the meaning of the contract, the company can just say "we have a business need to reorganise the fleet", and the OP is stuffed. If he resigns and claims constructive dismissal over this, he will be on a hiding to nothing. The OP can and should negotiate for a better deal, and if need be file a grievance. The Union may be able to get the OP a good result by negotiating. Talking of constructive dismissal is just daft.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 21st April 18:50

[norwichbrian]

Breadvan72 said:

I am an employment lawyer, so thanks for the lecture, but no thanks. It's not a grey area. This is nothing like a constructive dismissal.

The OP is being offered a van. Even if he could quibble that a van is not a car within the meaning of the contract, the company can just say "we have a business need to reorganise the fleet", and the OP is stuffed. If he resigns and claims constructive dismissal over this, he will be on a hiding to nothing. The OP can and should negotiate for a better deal, and if need be file a grievance. The Union may be able to get the OP a good result by negotiating. Talking of constructive dismissal is just daft.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 21st April 18:50

Thanks to all of you. Hoping the union get back to me tomorrow or very soon as I want to word the grievance letter correctly as unsure as to what discrimination (if any) to complain about. Talking to our other guys regarding this, it transpires that the boss is on a bonus of £125 for each engineer he gets out of a car and into a van. As he has almost 60 reporting to him up the chain it is a very good incentive - but only for him. Would the boss be obliged to confirm the bonus if I asked him directly? Strikes me as curious that if the company want us all in vans it should simply say so in an announcement and not by picking us off one at a time.

[anonymous-user]

FFS, there is no discrimination here. The car deal is not being altered because of sex, race, age, religion or disability, now is it? Stop listening to bloke in pub claptrap on the net and listen to what the union advises.

If the company is dealing one at a time, then arm up with a union rep and try to cut a deal. If the union wants to make a wider issue of it, fair dos, but companies have the right to manage their businesses.

Asking your boss about his pay deal would not be a good idea. He has no obligation to tell you what his deal is. Negotiate, don't confront.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 21st April 19:16

[Legacywr]

I'd put money on it that a company employing as many people as yours, will no their legal position inside out regarding this issue!

It does sound a bit depressing/upsetting for you though OP!

[Phil117]

Not sure if this has been suggested at all, but could you not try and meet somewhere in the middle and go for a crew/kombi style van?


You will still get a 5 seaters, and also van like boot.

You will also benefit from cheap car tax £3000 liability so either £50/100 tax a month.

[Sy1441]

Our company changed their scheme recently, myself and the other area managers had 3 series / A4's and the directors had 5 series. The directors now have Jag XF's and us lowly middle management can either have a Citroen C1 or take the £5k car allowance, easy choice! Due to circumstances like insurance with 0 no claims It does however leave me substantially out of pocket, decided to make the most of it and buy a sports car. Best of a bad situation!

[mfmman]

Unfortunately whilst it may have been accepted in the past I think you will struggle to get past a policy of service engineers not using estate cars. My last employer took this stance with a load of guys who Tupe'd in via an acquisition and had been through a few other transfers as well, they all had contracts stating fully expensed estate car provided. Employer changed policy to vans, due to need to carry tool boxes and chemicals, nothing past pots of glue and toilet unblocker usually. Argued long and hard even though I was not directly affected but I was their line manager so stood up for them but ultimately lost out.

[Ozone]

Sy1441 said:

Due to circumstances like insurance with 0 no claims It does however leave me substantially out of pocket, decided to make the most of it and buy a sports car. Best of a bad situation!

Your employer can write a letter confirming how many years you have with no claims on the fleet and a lot of insurers will except that.

[anonymous-user]

Hey, some insurers might even accept it. When it comes to insurance (leave aside basic command of the English language), exceptions aren't really what you want.