Just a little angry today.
Discussion
So I'm employed on a Ltd Company contract basis.
I typed a whole big rant, and explanation, and stuff, but then deleted it, and decided to type the following.
Why is it that some hiring managers, think they can be rude, and treat you like a child, because they don't like the fact that you have used your initiative?
Do you take the s
t, and the hourly rate, or do you say something, and risk having to find another contract (it's a little early in my contract) ?
I'm hitting all my targets, I'm changing the priorities as things change, and still hitting my targets. And yet, because I'm not doing it the way other people have done it, I'm subjected to a dressing down. FFS. So angry.
I typed a whole big rant, and explanation, and stuff, but then deleted it, and decided to type the following.
Why is it that some hiring managers, think they can be rude, and treat you like a child, because they don't like the fact that you have used your initiative?
Do you take the s
t, and the hourly rate, or do you say something, and risk having to find another contract (it's a little early in my contract) ?I'm hitting all my targets, I'm changing the priorities as things change, and still hitting my targets. And yet, because I'm not doing it the way other people have done it, I'm subjected to a dressing down. FFS. So angry.
If I understand your situation correctly you should be very careful about allowing any client to 'give you a dressing down' on the basis that they don't like your methods (assuming the end result is the same).
In my field certainly, behaving in a way that keeps me outside of IR35 regulations would dictate that I wouldn't accept being spoken to in that manner.
In my field certainly, behaving in a way that keeps me outside of IR35 regulations would dictate that I wouldn't accept being spoken to in that manner.
The question is what did you do "wrong"?
If something that was necessary to ensure you acted professionally and properly within your code of conduct, then I'd be leaving that role right away.
If just something silly like "oh, we always do it this way instead of your way".. Then time to find another contract and hope they are more reasonable.
Guess that sums up my attitude..
If something that was necessary to ensure you acted professionally and properly within your code of conduct, then I'd be leaving that role right away.
If just something silly like "oh, we always do it this way instead of your way".. Then time to find another contract and hope they are more reasonable.
Guess that sums up my attitude..
skahigh said:
If I understand your situation correctly you should be very careful about allowing any client to 'give you a dressing down' on the basis that they don't like your methods (assuming the end result is the same).
In my field certainly, behaving in a way that keeps me outside of IR35 regulations would dictate that I wouldn't accept being spoken to in that manner.
In most other fields a contractor/3rd party is there to do what the client wants, IR35 or not. If A service provider (personal service co or a.n.other) doesn't do what has been requested in a way agreed by a customer the the customer has a right to feel aggrieved. Whether that's right or wrong is a different matter entirely.In my field certainly, behaving in a way that keeps me outside of IR35 regulations would dictate that I wouldn't accept being spoken to in that manner.
Edited to add: OP, the client sounds like a plonker but at least it's easier to move than if you were a perm. Imagine having the guy as a manager!
Edited by bga on Tuesday 1st July 22:12
Basically I am taking a very specialised aerospace product that is broken, and finding out why it broke, doing a fairly technical report, and managing the rebuild of that product.
They needed me, because they were massively in arrears, so in 6 weeks I've moved 1/2 of the tested, by waiting for strip and report, to repair approved and quote agreed by customer, and now waiting for build, but they don't have all the parts.
Now, as new dead units come in I've ignored them. No point in doing anything with them, until I get the pile waiting for strip to the point where we are awaiting customer approval.
Effectively I'm working to a priority set by the customer, one at a time.
This apparently is wrong. I should have PUSHED them into the test department, despite that they are working overtime to keep up with NEW parts.
I'm not seeing why it matters. The problem I have is that I don't have a great memory, can only work on one thing at a time, and am very focused on the plan that was originally agreed. So if I'm asked about something that isn't on my current radar, I get a bit flustered, and it was all a bit "What about this?, I wanted this, Why isn't this done? I asked you this yesterday, Well that isn't good enough, this isn't the way it should be done. I'm really not happy, you should have done this"
and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights. Plus the bloke who is between us, who takes all her crap, is on holiday, so she's got a free reign to bully people. I say Bully, because it's easy to pick on one thing and blow it out of proportion, and make people feel like they are failing.
I know I'm doing a decent job, and that's why I'm pissed off.
They needed me, because they were massively in arrears, so in 6 weeks I've moved 1/2 of the tested, by waiting for strip and report, to repair approved and quote agreed by customer, and now waiting for build, but they don't have all the parts.
Now, as new dead units come in I've ignored them. No point in doing anything with them, until I get the pile waiting for strip to the point where we are awaiting customer approval.
Effectively I'm working to a priority set by the customer, one at a time.
This apparently is wrong. I should have PUSHED them into the test department, despite that they are working overtime to keep up with NEW parts.
I'm not seeing why it matters. The problem I have is that I don't have a great memory, can only work on one thing at a time, and am very focused on the plan that was originally agreed. So if I'm asked about something that isn't on my current radar, I get a bit flustered, and it was all a bit "What about this?, I wanted this, Why isn't this done? I asked you this yesterday, Well that isn't good enough, this isn't the way it should be done. I'm really not happy, you should have done this"
and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights. Plus the bloke who is between us, who takes all her crap, is on holiday, so she's got a free reign to bully people. I say Bully, because it's easy to pick on one thing and blow it out of proportion, and make people feel like they are failing.
I know I'm doing a decent job, and that's why I'm pissed off.
That does sound crappy. If there is other work out there then I wouldn't worry too much about sacking a client or at least not renewing again. The first time that you do it is the scariest!
In the meantime is there any way that this guy can be engaged in reasonable conversation where he can explain what he wants & set expectations on both sides?
In the meantime is there any way that this guy can be engaged in reasonable conversation where he can explain what he wants & set expectations on both sides?
The first words I'm having today are "I've been thinking about what you said yesterday, and I wanted to say that I'm working ahead of the agreed plan, I'm altering it and reprioritising it as shortages become apparent, and if I wasn't hitting the targets, then I'd happily take constructive criticism, and I can see you are very stressed, but that is no reason for me to become the fall guy "
You should take constructive criticism even if you're hitting targets.
Whether you act on it or not, as a contractor, I'd say should be independent. If you're hitting targets and it's a problem for them if you don't do things prescriptively, I suspect it's not a customer to work for any longer than absolutely necessary.
Whether you act on it or not, as a contractor, I'd say should be independent. If you're hitting targets and it's a problem for them if you don't do things prescriptively, I suspect it's not a customer to work for any longer than absolutely necessary.
Pit Pony said:
The first words I'm having today are "I've been thinking about what you said yesterday, and I wanted to say that I'm working ahead of the agreed plan, I'm altering it and reprioritising it as shortages become apparent, and if I wasn't hitting the targets, then I'd happily take constructive criticism, and I can see you are very stressed, but that is no reason for me to become the fall guy "
Let us know how that goes!Pit Pony said:
...I get a bit flustered...and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights...make people feel like they are failing...
You need to get a thicker skin and tell her to do one, safe in the knowledge that the reason they're in the st and have called a professional in is precisely because of the way they've been doing things 
Pit Pony said:
Basically I am taking a very specialised aerospace product that is broken, and finding out why it broke, doing a fairly technical report, and managing the rebuild of that product.
Well, then I guess the question is how much do you want/need the role?Because I'd say to her "The company hired me as the expert to fix this, that is what I am trying to do. If you don't want me to fix it then I will leave now, as I won't have my reputation tarnished by failing when the reason for that failure would be for reasons outside of my control"
bga said:
skahigh said:
If I understand your situation correctly you should be very careful about allowing any client to 'give you a dressing down' on the basis that they don't like your methods (assuming the end result is the same).
In my field certainly, behaving in a way that keeps me outside of IR35 regulations would dictate that I wouldn't accept being spoken to in that manner.
In most other fields a contractor/3rd party is there to do what the client wants, IR35 or not. If A service provider (personal service co or a.n.other) doesn't do what has been requested in a way agreed by a customer the the customer has a right to feel aggrieved. Whether that's right or wrong is a different matter entirely.In my field certainly, behaving in a way that keeps me outside of IR35 regulations would dictate that I wouldn't accept being spoken to in that manner.
Edited to add: OP, the client sounds like a plonker but at least it's easier to move than if you were a perm. Imagine having the guy as a manager!
Edited by bga on Tuesday 1st July 22:12
A contractor is there to meet the clients needs in a suitable way, not to do everything the client says and not necessarily the way the client wants.
It's a big like employing a builder to build you a wall and then telling him off for using the wrong type of trowel.
That said, in practice professionalism dictates that 'suitable' would be discussed and agreed between you and the client.
Pit Pony said:
Basically I am taking a very specialised aerospace product that is broken, and finding out why it broke, doing a fairly technical report, and managing the rebuild of that product.
They needed me, because they were massively in arrears, so in 6 weeks I've moved 1/2 of the tested, by waiting for strip and report, to repair approved and quote agreed by customer, and now waiting for build, but they don't have all the parts.
Now, as new dead units come in I've ignored them. No point in doing anything with them, until I get the pile waiting for strip to the point where we are awaiting customer approval.
Effectively I'm working to a priority set by the customer, one at a time.
This apparently is wrong. I should have PUSHED them into the test department, despite that they are working overtime to keep up with NEW parts.
I'm not seeing why it matters. The problem I have is that I don't have a great memory, can only work on one thing at a time, and am very focused on the plan that was originally agreed. So if I'm asked about something that isn't on my current radar, I get a bit flustered, and it was all a bit "What about this?, I wanted this, Why isn't this done? I asked you this yesterday, Well that isn't good enough, this isn't the way it should be done. I'm really not happy, you should have done this"
and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights. Plus the bloke who is between us, who takes all her crap, is on holiday, so she's got a free reign to bully people. I say Bully, because it's easy to pick on one thing and blow it out of proportion, and make people feel like they are failing.
I know I'm doing a decent job, and that's why I'm pissed off.
Id be quoting the original written spec (clear the backlog), if they are changing the boundaries (manage new incoming) that much then you either want an additional written spec or a revised spec either way make it clear that what they are asking is outside of the original agreement and you will give them a quote for that, that needs to be agreed (in writing by someone of the correct level) before you will take on any additional responsibilities.They needed me, because they were massively in arrears, so in 6 weeks I've moved 1/2 of the tested, by waiting for strip and report, to repair approved and quote agreed by customer, and now waiting for build, but they don't have all the parts.
Now, as new dead units come in I've ignored them. No point in doing anything with them, until I get the pile waiting for strip to the point where we are awaiting customer approval.
Effectively I'm working to a priority set by the customer, one at a time.
This apparently is wrong. I should have PUSHED them into the test department, despite that they are working overtime to keep up with NEW parts.
I'm not seeing why it matters. The problem I have is that I don't have a great memory, can only work on one thing at a time, and am very focused on the plan that was originally agreed. So if I'm asked about something that isn't on my current radar, I get a bit flustered, and it was all a bit "What about this?, I wanted this, Why isn't this done? I asked you this yesterday, Well that isn't good enough, this isn't the way it should be done. I'm really not happy, you should have done this"
and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights. Plus the bloke who is between us, who takes all her crap, is on holiday, so she's got a free reign to bully people. I say Bully, because it's easy to pick on one thing and blow it out of proportion, and make people feel like they are failing.
I know I'm doing a decent job, and that's why I'm pissed off.
skahigh said:
No not really, IR35 would deem that to be a situation of control.
A contractor is there to meet the clients needs in a suitable way, not to do everything the client says and not necessarily the way the client wants.
It's a big like employing a builder to build you a wall and then telling him off for using the wrong type of trowel.
That said, in practice professionalism dictates that 'suitable' would be discussed and agreed between you and the client.
Maybe your situation is different to the majority of other service providers but generally no client cedes that amount of control and service providers generally do not expect it. IR35 or not the general practice is that the people paying the bill are in control and most contractors have to accept that or find another client. A contractor is there to meet the clients needs in a suitable way, not to do everything the client says and not necessarily the way the client wants.
It's a big like employing a builder to build you a wall and then telling him off for using the wrong type of trowel.
That said, in practice professionalism dictates that 'suitable' would be discussed and agreed between you and the client.
I agree with your example but that is a bit different to me saying build that wall with a specific type of trowel. I am the client so he/she better do so. To give the builder a dressing down after not specifying what trowel to use is just an utterly arseish thing to do but a response to the client saying that IR35 wouldn't permit that isn't really going to achieve anything other than early exit or no renewal (not a bad thing if the client is such an idiot!)
Pit Pony said:
The problem I have is that I don't have a great memory, can only work on one thing at a time, and am very focused on the plan that was originally agreed. So if I'm asked about something that isn't on my current radar, I get a bit flustered, and it was all a bit "What about this?, I wanted this, Why isn't this done? I asked you this yesterday, Well that isn't good enough, this isn't the way it should be done. I'm really not happy, you should have done this"
and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights.
playing devils advocate:and I'm a bit rabbit in headlights.
if i were paying a consultant/contractor to get me out of the s
t and this is how they coped under pressure, i would be looking to replace them asap. by what you've presented here sounds like you've gone and done your own thing without documenting/communicating the current situation/planned solution and benefits to the workflow. again if i were hiring a six sigma guy [i assume that's what you are] i would not expect him to wade in and change the whole process without consulting me.
i am sure your solution is sound, but it doesn't seem like you are handling your client very well.
shirt said:
playing devils advocate:
if i were paying a consultant/contractor to get me out of the st and this is how they coped under pressure, i would be looking to replace them asap.
by what you've presented here sounds like you've gone and done your own thing without documenting/communicating the current situation/planned solution and benefits to the workflow. again if i were hiring a six sigma guy [i assume that's what you are] i would not expect him to wade in and change the whole process without consulting me.
i am sure your solution is sound, but it doesn't seem like you are handling your client very well.
Fair play. They didn't really have a working process, and I just got on with it, and as I'm working the process, I'm documenting the process for them, but daily I'm finding out new things about the process. Much of it is waste, and there's lots of NVA but (apparently) essential (as in paperwork.) if i were paying a consultant/contractor to get me out of the s
t and this is how they coped under pressure, i would be looking to replace them asap. by what you've presented here sounds like you've gone and done your own thing without documenting/communicating the current situation/planned solution and benefits to the workflow. again if i were hiring a six sigma guy [i assume that's what you are] i would not expect him to wade in and change the whole process without consulting me.
i am sure your solution is sound, but it doesn't seem like you are handling your client very well.
Anyway, update, she was all sweetness at her 8:15 stand up meeting. Almost as if it never happened, so I explained exactly where we were status wise and that the plan had now altered slightly (to take into account all her opinions, as quite frankly, it's no shakes either way), and asking her for the update on the action she took yesterday. After the meeting I explained to her that I understand why she thought it was important, to do it her way but reminded her that I'm keeping to all the deadlines as agreed, and as far as I can see it's a red herring to suggest that either approach will make the end result different.
And the I found out something from a stores guy that was a new bit of information about the process.
Starting a Process FMEA in my head, and on the train home on Friday (Just 3 hours), I shall do a first draft on my lap top.
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