Employers taking the ****.....
Discussion
I went to grab a coffee from Next yesterday and saw an advert for apprenticeships in their window. I had presumed this was just some type of gimmick, I didn't realise they did apprenticeships for the more unskilled work. It does just seem like a way to get cheap labour.
OP - your son works for a pretty poor owner if the tips thing is true. When I was 16 I worked as a Saturday boy in an independent coffee house/restaurant and we were only allowed to keep our tips if they were put into our hands, otherwise the owner kept them which I thought was the norm until my mum went ballistic!
OP - your son works for a pretty poor owner if the tips thing is true. When I was 16 I worked as a Saturday boy in an independent coffee house/restaurant and we were only allowed to keep our tips if they were put into our hands, otherwise the owner kept them which I thought was the norm until my mum went ballistic!
I have the utmost respect for a youngster who goes through this though.
As a prospective employer I would rate someone very highly who had grafted that hard for so little cash. Whether I would think that if they had been let go though I don't know (so unscrupulous employers taking advantage might be doing them more harm than good).
It flies in the face of my probably unfair believe that all teenagers are lazy buggers.
Well done to the OPs son! I'd be reporting the business owner when your son has finished with them though.
As a prospective employer I would rate someone very highly who had grafted that hard for so little cash. Whether I would think that if they had been let go though I don't know (so unscrupulous employers taking advantage might be doing them more harm than good).
It flies in the face of my probably unfair believe that all teenagers are lazy buggers.
Well done to the OPs son! I'd be reporting the business owner when your son has finished with them though.
surveyor said:
18 Year old step-lad has started his first job today. I'm waiting for the call to pick him up...
13 hours, and he will have earned £34. £2.68 per hour..........
1976, I started work as an apprentice. I took home £13.67 a week. My sister, who was 17 and on the dole, well, she took home £15 a week. 13 hours, and he will have earned £34. £2.68 per hour..........
I had to pay £7 a week board to my mum, and my sister paid £5. "Because she has so much more spare time on her hands" was my mums explanation.
Don't talk to me about fair!
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Not so anymore. All the big accountancy firms run apprenticeships. As do the banks, the BBC, BT et al.
It's not just for bricklayers and plasterers anymore.
However, I'd question any firm offering an apprenticeship in dishwashing and table waiting. Unless it was a top hotel training up a maître d'. Ideally an proper apprenticeship should encompass at least one day a week at a place of study doing a qualification in the subject.
They might be called "apprenticeships", but they're not really. A bit like everyone is a "manager" these days (I know, it's a bit of a 90s joke, but it is still true). No one is a street sweeper, they're all urban cleansing managers, or, judging from this thread, apprentice urban cleansing managers. It's not just for bricklayers and plasterers anymore.
However, I'd question any firm offering an apprenticeship in dishwashing and table waiting. Unless it was a top hotel training up a maître d'. Ideally an proper apprenticeship should encompass at least one day a week at a place of study doing a qualification in the subject.
I asked a question in my last post and, while accepting the 'who the f
k are you' principle, I wonder if the OP could tell us why his boy is doing an apprenticeship rather than exactly the same thing as a job but for 5 times the money? I'm not taking the piss, I am wondering what the reason could possibly be.Simon.
It's the first thing since he came back to live with us that he's been offered. It's better than doing nothing basically.
He's looking already and fingers crossed will be moving on...
Like most young kids he did not ask important questions so only now is realising just how bad a deal this really is.
He's looking already and fingers crossed will be moving on...
Like most young kids he did not ask important questions so only now is realising just how bad a deal this really is.
swerni said:
Zoobeef said:
HenryJM said:
Call me a pedant but she can't work 120 hours a week, it's pretty much impossible.
Chuck in a 24 hour day or too and it shortens the others. Which is why she's at breaking point, has put her notice in from a job she used to love and is talking of some drastic things.But we were happy
We take on apprentices at 18. Although the pay is low they get study leave and will have a finance qualification after 2 years and, potentially, be Chartered Accountants after 4 years.
I think this compares quite well to graduates who will leave University after a similar timescale, thousands of pounds in debt, no job, and no work experience.
I think this compares quite well to graduates who will leave University after a similar timescale, thousands of pounds in debt, no job, and no work experience.
eldar said:
He is learning, even a bad employer gives him knowledge.
Once said to me : "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.....apart from polio" Said by my best man, after we talked through my experiences about a particularly s
t job I'd resigned from a job I hated, which I couldn't afford to loose, as I had no way of paying the Mortgage. The other thing he said when I started my next job "For Fecks sake. Learn to Brown Nose the boss"
There is a fair bit of abuse of apprenticeship schemes. Have a look at this for possible parallels and maybe contact HMRC, which is the enforcement agency for NMW.
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/uk/c...
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/uk/c...
Breadvan72 said:
There is a fair bit of abuse of apprenticeship schemes. Have a look at this for possible parallels and maybe contact HMRC, which is the enforcement agency for NMW.
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/uk/c...
Interesting, many thanks BV. I suspect HMRC could drive coach and horses through this arrangement. As far as I am aware there is nothing in writing, let alone a training agreement....http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/uk/c...
For those who credit me with supporting him... There is a reason. He's had a tough time over the years due to his dad who is a d
head. Unfortunately for quite a while the step-lad followed in his footsteps, and was not a particularly pleasant kid to know.His dad has now left the country (without even a goodbye as far as I am aware), and step-lad has sorted his head out, and is really making an effort. On the basis that if he's trying so will I we are forging ahead and I'm pleased to say I'm proud of him. Hopefully he won't cock it up.
Edited by surveyor on Tuesday 8th July 21:23
The employer sounds like a wker.
Somewhat off topic, people are being a bit quick to dismiss table waiting as being virtually skill-less. Certainly many waiters in the UK are 3 years old and useless, but that's as much about their employers stupidity than the nature of the job. Good waiting staff will help get return customers, flog as much as they can to each customer on a quiet night, try to turnover tables as quickly as possible when it's busy, etc ... they are salesmen as much as plate carriers ... Or at least they should be.
ker.Somewhat off topic, people are being a bit quick to dismiss table waiting as being virtually skill-less. Certainly many waiters in the UK are 3 years old and useless, but that's as much about their employers stupidity than the nature of the job. Good waiting staff will help get return customers, flog as much as they can to each customer on a quiet night, try to turnover tables as quickly as possible when it's busy, etc ... they are salesmen as much as plate carriers ... Or at least they should be.
Apprenticeships work both ways. They are cheap labour for employers and great experience and qualification gainers for the apprentices.
I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Edited by T5SOR on Wednesday 9th July 20:26
T5SOR said:
Apprenticeships work both ways. They are cheap labour for employers and great experience and qualification gainers for the apprentices.
I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Happy to go with that until it's an apprenticeship in waiting tables....I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Edited by T5SOR on Wednesday 9th July 20:26
Vaud said:
Rick101 said:
Sadly this is how most just jobs for young people are. It's absolutely disgraceful.
Many on here have the tory ilk of 'well just work harder'.
Though I don't support all Union causes, they do a lot to prevent this sort of thing happening. It's a shame most jobs don't have access to a Union.
I'm a Tory and some of us do believe in Unions, especially for the lowest paid and exploitable members of the work force. Market economics are ok, but there are limits.Many on here have the tory ilk of 'well just work harder'.
Though I don't support all Union causes, they do a lot to prevent this sort of thing happening. It's a shame most jobs don't have access to a Union.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff