Employers taking the ****.....
Discussion
surveyor said:
T5SOR said:
Apprenticeships work both ways. They are cheap labour for employers and great experience and qualification gainers for the apprentices.
I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Happy to go with that until it's an apprenticeship in waiting tables....I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Edited by T5SOR on Wednesday 9th July 20:26
ker for implimenting this.T5SOR said:
Apprenticeships work both ways. They are cheap labour for employers and great experience and qualification gainers for the apprentices.
I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
I started an apprenticeship in '76, which was pretty close to one of the last years they did 'real' apprenticeships in the UK, and after that they turned to YOPS and other stupidity to get cheap labour into the workplace.I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Even back then many of us were asking who was going to replace the 'old boys' in industry as they took retirement. Not to fear, British industry died off as fast as the old guys did, once they left gainful employ. There were no jobs for young people in the 80's.
A few years ago I heard they had started something called the 'New Apprenticeship' or some similarly imaginative name, that lasted about two years and equipped a guy with the experience and skills to handle Facebook and Twitter on his own.......
I did a 3 year apprenticeship in Print origination from 86 to 89 got my City and guilds Distinctions.
The company paid a proper wage £80 a week for a 16 year old back then was very good.
The whole apprenticeship was done by the book via the Company and Union (NGA).
Best thing was by the time I had finished, everything I learnt was obsolete, as Macs took over.
The company paid a proper wage £80 a week for a 16 year old back then was very good.
The whole apprenticeship was done by the book via the Company and Union (NGA).
Best thing was by the time I had finished, everything I learnt was obsolete, as Macs took over.
ATG said:
The employer sounds like a wker.
Somewhat off topic, people are being a bit quick to dismiss table waiting as being virtually skill-less. Certainly many waiters in the UK are 3 years old and useless, but that's as much about their employers stupidity than the nature of the job. Good waiting staff will help get return customers, flog as much as they can to each customer on a quiet night, try to turnover tables as quickly as possible when it's busy, etc ... they are salesmen as much as plate carriers ... Or at least they should be.
Nevermind all the niceties like Food hygiene that ALL food handlers should be doing ... ker.Somewhat off topic, people are being a bit quick to dismiss table waiting as being virtually skill-less. Certainly many waiters in the UK are 3 years old and useless, but that's as much about their employers stupidity than the nature of the job. Good waiting staff will help get return customers, flog as much as they can to each customer on a quiet night, try to turnover tables as quickly as possible when it's busy, etc ... they are salesmen as much as plate carriers ... Or at least they should be.
Negative Creep said:
We've employed a couple at our work - we're an admin department so basically it's just an excuse to get two extra people and pay them nothing. If it's something like an electrician or mechanic I can understand since once you're qualified you'll earn a reasonable amount, but even if they get kept on they'll only be on about £13k p.a!
Maybe your company will take a lead from the marine company above & fook u off and replace you with a cheap apprentice, It seems that they care not that much about people.We have a handful of Apprentices. To be blunt we would not have taken a chance on individuals without skills unless there was a benefit to us and something to mitigate the risk and effort required to bring to a point where they can make a positive contribution. We have had great success with the scheme, we terminated one for being glued to facebook perpetually, another my mutual agreement. The other 4 are doing brilliantly, willing to learn, focussed. They are certain to be offered permanent roles at the end, or great references if they don't want to stay.
We do tend to escalate their pay and pay their travel expenses though on top of their wages.
We do tend to escalate their pay and pay their travel expenses though on top of their wages.
An update...
Boss offered a step-son a promotion to trainee supervisor apprentice in a month if he kept his nose clean... This would mean more money (I'm guessing not much.
As it happens one of the other job applications that he had made came good during the week and he starts as a trainee insurance clerk on minimum wage on Monday.
While it's a poor position it's a damn sight better than what he had, and can hopefully lead to good things.
Boss offered a step-son a promotion to trainee supervisor apprentice in a month if he kept his nose clean... This would mean more money (I'm guessing not much.
As it happens one of the other job applications that he had made came good during the week and he starts as a trainee insurance clerk on minimum wage on Monday.
While it's a poor position it's a damn sight better than what he had, and can hopefully lead to good things.
surveyor said:
An update...
he starts as a trainee insurance clerk on minimum wage on Monday.
Damn, the poor kid. Not having much luck is he. he starts as a trainee insurance clerk on minimum wage on Monday.
Seriously though, good luck to him. Judging by the quality of many staff at call centres etc, if he has an IQ in the 80s or 90s, he could be CEO of Aviva in 5 yrs.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
surveyor said:
An update...
he starts as a trainee insurance clerk on minimum wage on Monday.
Damn, the poor kid. Not having much luck is he. he starts as a trainee insurance clerk on minimum wage on Monday.
Seriously though, good luck to him. Judging by the quality of many staff at call centres etc, if he has an IQ in the 80s or 90s, he could be CEO of Aviva in 5 yrs.
King Herald said:
T5SOR said:
Apprenticeships work both ways. They are cheap labour for employers and great experience and qualification gainers for the apprentices.
I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
I started an apprenticeship in '76, which was pretty close to one of the last years they did 'real' apprenticeships in the UK, and after that they turned to YOPS and other stupidity to get cheap labour into the workplace.I started as an apprentice on £6K a year about 10 years ago. If I hadn't have done it then who knows. I could've ended up doing minimum wage jobs for the next 20 years.
Now I run the company I started at 9 years ago as an apprentice and have had all training paid for (HNC, Degree, Masters etc.). I have also employed 4 apprentices since I finished, increased their base pay and given them a great platform to build a career.
Even back then many of us were asking who was going to replace the 'old boys' in industry as they took retirement. Not to fear, British industry died off as fast as the old guys did, once they left gainful employ. There were no jobs for young people in the 80's.
A few years ago I heard they had started something called the 'New Apprenticeship' or some similarly imaginative name, that lasted about two years and equipped a guy with the experience and skills to handle Facebook and Twitter on his own.......
it sounds like he should do that until he finds something else. I am presuming continuing education is ruled out? What qualifications does he have? If he's in a position where he's had to accept a job like this, he's probably not looking very desirable (unfortunately) from an employer's perspective. Maybe he should consider getting involved in local bodies, volunteering, maybe decide where he wants to get to, and focus only on a pathway to get him there?
Our babysitter who is 18 worked for a local curry house as a waitress on an "apprentice wage". The owner kept the tips and charged them for ice in drinks. Total scum, it's a good Indian but I won't be going back after hearing that and it makes me want to point this out on Trip Advisor.
I was "let go" after a two year YTS scheme although it probably worked out the best thing that could have happened to me.
Over the last few years I have employed people using a government scheme which pay wages for the first year. It has worked well and I have employed four out of six of them and still do.
Good luck to your step son.
I was "let go" after a two year YTS scheme although it probably worked out the best thing that could have happened to me.
Over the last few years I have employed people using a government scheme which pay wages for the first year. It has worked well and I have employed four out of six of them and still do.
Good luck to your step son.
I was on an 4 year Apprenticeship about 15 years ago. I was paid £75 per week (about £1.75ph).
Year 1 was good, it was interesting. i was learning and developing useful skills.
Year 2 saw a change in management. They dismissed the cleaner/car park organiser and had me mopping up oil, caretaking duties and moving cars around.
When i questioned the new boss about using me as cheap labour, he said that as long as he gave me 30 days per year in technical training at college, my daily duties were at the discretion of the manager.
Handed in my notice the following week and never looked back.
Year 1 was good, it was interesting. i was learning and developing useful skills.
Year 2 saw a change in management. They dismissed the cleaner/car park organiser and had me mopping up oil, caretaking duties and moving cars around.
When i questioned the new boss about using me as cheap labour, he said that as long as he gave me 30 days per year in technical training at college, my daily duties were at the discretion of the manager.
Handed in my notice the following week and never looked back.
H22observer said:
When i questioned the new boss about using me as cheap labour, he said that as long as he gave me 30 days per year in technical training at college, my daily duties were at the discretion of the manager.
Handed in my notice the following week and never looked back.
This was pretty much the way my apprenticeship in the machine shop went for much of the time. I was moved from machine to machine doing the boring, tedious crap that nobody else wanted. In the end it came to pass I was the only person in the shop who could operate every machine proficiently. Handed in my notice the following week and never looked back.
Apprenticeships were always thus, in years gone by, 7 years of drudgery and serfdom, but gradually turning the feckless peasant into a craftsman......
You also learned how to live and interact with other people, learned respect for your elders etc. Nowadays two years of college and you can step out into the world as an all knowing, all seeing 'expert', with a degree or similar to your name, yet no knowledge of anything, anywhere.
King Herald said:
<snip>
You also learned how to live and interact with other people, learned respect for your elders etc. Nowadays two years of college and you can step out into the world as an all knowing, all seeing 'expert', with a degree or similar to your name, yet no knowledge of anything, anywhere.
A degree from an apprrenticeship in 2 years , pull the otherone it's got bells on You also learned how to live and interact with other people, learned respect for your elders etc. Nowadays two years of college and you can step out into the world as an all knowing, all seeing 'expert', with a degree or similar to your name, yet no knowledge of anything, anywhere.
depending on your GCSE results an apprenticeship is generally level 2 or level 3 intially (level 2 if you go D-Gs , level £ if you got Cs or better)
Apprenticeships longer than 2 years may include some higher study - traditionally for crafts / trades this would be a HNC or similar and then onwards to a 'technician' path if you wished (and for engineering / IT jobs EngTech latterly , even IEng in the old days ).
The only full degrees in the UK that can be done from atricualtion ot graduation in 2 years are University of Buckingham ones - because they use a 40 + week academic year - which other Unis don't ( apart from Health Professional pre-reg).
for an apprentice even one with good GCSEs to a full degree is a minimum of 5 years and that would on the basis of doing well at a level 3 appretniceship and then being seconded to a full time degree , aprretnice with degree GCSEs to a Foundation degree or HND in 5 and a bit years while working full time is possible .
I would be interested also in which degree makes you an 'expert' on graduation as I'm not aware of any that do , as most degrees with profesional recognition either offer the bassic professional Qualification on graduation (e.g. Health Professional or the reamining Bachelor+ QTS teaching degrees ) or fulfil the academic requirements for professional recognition ( Accredited STEM degrees, Qualifying Law degrees ... )
King Herald said:
H22observer said:
When i questioned the new boss about using me as cheap labour, he said that as long as he gave me 30 days per year in technical training at college, my daily duties were at the discretion of the manager.
Handed in my notice the following week and never looked back.
This was pretty much the way my apprenticeship in the machine shop went for much of the time. I was moved from machine to machine doing the boring, tedious crap that nobody else wanted. In the end it came to pass I was the only person in the shop who could operate every machine proficiently. Handed in my notice the following week and never looked back.
Apprenticeships were always thus, in years gone by, 7 years of drudgery and serfdom, but gradually turning the feckless peasant into a craftsman......
You also learned how to live and interact with other people, learned respect for your elders etc. Nowadays two years of college and you can step out into the world as an all knowing, all seeing 'expert', with a degree or similar to your name, yet no knowledge of anything, anywhere.
king about in school long enough to do actually do any work. That said there are plenty of dopes who are academically clever... and plenty of academics who would have no hope of functioning in the real world... but i would absolutely stop short of saying what so many people see to say, and you appear to no different, that people with degrees are all useless, and people who left school with nowt are all somehow 'real people' who've been unlucky in the opportunities life has afforded them.
I don't like the scorn pouring down on waiters from this thread, it might not be rocket surgery but good waiters are a very valuable asset for a restaurant.
An expert waiter can increase sales and profit considerably and make the front of house run like a well oiled machine. If you learn the job properly then you have a skill for life, however most top waiters are foreign because abroad waiting on is a respected profession and not looked down on as we Brits tend to do.
I suspect a great many of those who sneer at waiting on would not last a day if they had a try.
BTW I am not a waiter.
An expert waiter can increase sales and profit considerably and make the front of house run like a well oiled machine. If you learn the job properly then you have a skill for life, however most top waiters are foreign because abroad waiting on is a respected profession and not looked down on as we Brits tend to do.
I suspect a great many of those who sneer at waiting on would not last a day if they had a try.
BTW I am not a waiter.
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