Employers taking the ****.....

[Vaud]

kev b said:

I don't like the scorn pouring down on waiters from this thread, it might not be rocket surgery but good waiters are a very valuable asset for a restaurant.

An expert waiter can increase sales and profit considerably and make the front of house run like a well oiled machine. If you learn the job properly then you have a skill for life, however most top waiters are foreign because abroad waiting on is a respected profession and not looked down on as we Brits tend to do.

I suspect a great many of those who sneer at waiting on would not last a day if they had a try.

BTW I am not a waiter.

Being a good waiter is very hard. I've been one in a high end pub/inn chain many years ago, and that was hard, but good fun. Not hard to spot opportunities to make a customer experience better, or to upsell, or to get good turnaround on a table under pressure for covers. All makes for good tips. But like all sales - it needs some empathy and savvy.

[surveyor]

Vaud said:

kev b said:

I don't like the scorn pouring down on waiters from this thread, it might not be rocket surgery but good waiters are a very valuable asset for a restaurant.

An expert waiter can increase sales and profit considerably and make the front of house run like a well oiled machine. If you learn the job properly then you have a skill for life, however most top waiters are foreign because abroad waiting on is a respected profession and not looked down on as we Brits tend to do.

I suspect a great many of those who sneer at waiting on would not last a day if they had a try.

BTW I am not a waiter.

Being a good waiter is very hard. I've been one in a high end pub/inn chain many years ago, and that was hard, but good fun. Not hard to spot opportunities to make a customer experience better, or to upsell, or to get good turnaround on a table under pressure for covers. All makes for good tips. But like all sales - it needs some empathy and savvy.

But it's not a profession which leads to a skilled rewarded vocation, typically. I'd have no issues if he was paid minimum wage, but an apprentice waiter is really just a piss take. He worked 36 hours finishing 11pm or later. Pay we worked out at about £90. Getting it will be interesting...

Ps. I don't think it's only the small firms using this wheeze to pay peanuts.....

[paulrockliffe]

The best thing you can do is have a read up on the hoops an employer needs to jump through to call a job an apprenticeship. When you've established that the requirements aren't met, report the NMW abuse to HMRC. They will go and investigate, and if they agree, they will extract the money that your son is owed and pay it to him. And every other kid that's been screwed over like this.

[kev b]

I second that, we pay our staff properly and those who don't make unfair competition.

In our area the people overseeing apprentices are pretty sharp, I guess it is not the same in other areas.

[surveyor]

Have to bide my time. Daft lad has put restaurant boss down as for a reference.

Now bear in mind that he was supposed to work at the weekend, but as we were away and he knew he had a another job he did not bother turning up..... (Not something I agree with - albeit I can understand why - essentially too timid to say I'm off), this could be interesting.

[hidetheelephants]

surveyor said:

Have to bide my time. Daft lad has put restaurant boss down as for a reference.

Now bear in mind that he was supposed to work at the weekend, but as we were away and he knew he had a another job he did not bother turning up..... (Not something I agree with - albeit I can understand why - essentially too timid to say I'm off), this could be interesting.

WTF? He's putting someone he's worked for for a whole 5 minutes as a reference? Have a word with him; at that age character references are what most school leavers have to use, so school teachers/scout leaders/etc. Rather more sensible than some bozo he's known for a very short time who's a chiselling scrooge and is only interested in cheap labour.

[Blown2CV]

hidetheelephants said:

surveyor said:

Have to bide my time. Daft lad has put restaurant boss down as for a reference.

Now bear in mind that he was supposed to work at the weekend, but as we were away and he knew he had a another job he did not bother turning up..... (Not something I agree with - albeit I can understand why - essentially too timid to say I'm off), this could be interesting.

WTF? He's putting someone he's worked for for a whole 5 minutes as a reference? Have a word with him; at that age character references are what most school leavers have to use, so school teachers/scout leaders/etc. Rather more sensible than some bozo he's known for a very short time who's a chiselling scrooge and is only interested in cheap labour.

well it's 2 errors, the choice of referee and also the not turning up for work which is a good idea 0% of the time. When you add those things together, not quite sure what he was thinking, youngster or no.

[surveyor]

Blown2CV said:

hidetheelephants said:

surveyor said:

Have to bide my time. Daft lad has put restaurant boss down as for a reference.

Now bear in mind that he was supposed to work at the weekend, but as we were away and he knew he had a another job he did not bother turning up..... (Not something I agree with - albeit I can understand why - essentially too timid to say I'm off), this could be interesting.

WTF? He's putting someone he's worked for for a whole 5 minutes as a reference? Have a word with him; at that age character references are what most school leavers have to use, so school teachers/scout leaders/etc. Rather more sensible than some bozo he's known for a very short time who's a chiselling scrooge and is only interested in cheap labour.

well it's 2 errors, the choice of referee and also the not turning up for work which is a good idea 0% of the time. When you add those things together, not quite sure what he was thinking, youngster or no.

Not turning up I can understand. I'm not sure if have bothered in his situation, although I would have the guts to say so.... Putting his name down as a referee is bloody stupid, but that's not out of character...

Think of a spaniel... Lots of energy, fairly loveable, but never learns, is daft as a brush and just gets up again after being told off.....

[tighnamara]

To put another spin on it and no way sticking up for unscrupulous employers, I do think everyone wants everything to quickly.
Whilst wages are important when you are so young getting out there and learning about life and what path you want to take is far more valuable in your 40 / 50 years of working life.
I started work in the 80's on the then Government YTS scheme on £25 a week, mates were earning more than this in other jobs but I did take on board it was a massive learning process and it did set me up in values greater than any £ extra an hour during what was a short part of my career.

[blindswelledrat]

There is a slight defence of this apprenticeship programme (but certainly not the one being discussed- just as a flip side to all the cries of 'piss-take' for a non professional apprenticeship)
There are many industries where a person can take a lot of time to get up to speed in their job and effectively are a cost/burden to the company in their first few months.
Because of this companies will not take risks on inexperienced youngsters because the failure rate might be too high.
Effectively these new apprenticeship rules mean that companies may give an opportunity to a youngster with no experience that they wouldn't have otherwise. Everyone is a winner. The company saves on the cost of experimenting and the youngster gets an opportunity that he wouldn't otherwise have got.
It is actually a good idea, but as the OP demonstrates is open to abuse and doesn't seem to have any parameters

[kev b]

On average we take on 8 trainees before we find one worth keeping on, even given time to prove themselves. Trainees can be dead weight for quite a while until they are up to speed, you can't expect them to earn top money until they can do the job.

That person would then generally stay with us for many years, unusual in the catering trade where people regularly jump ship, often being poached by businesses unwilling to train their own staff.

Edited by kev b on Wednesday 16th July 13:45

[tighnamara]

surveyor said:

Not turning up I can understand. I'm not sure if have bothered in his situation, although I would have the guts to say so.... Putting his name down as a referee is bloody stupid, but that's not out of character...

Think of a spaniel... Lots of energy, fairly loveable, but never learns, is daft as a brush and just gets up again after being told off.....

Please read what you have written.
Doesn't bode well for his future if you say he is daft as a brush, never learns and to think of a Spaniel.
Just as we'll he put down his "short term employer" as a reference and not yourself.

[surveyor]

tighnamara said:

surveyor said:

Not turning up I can understand. I'm not sure if have bothered in his situation, although I would have the guts to say so.... Putting his name down as a referee is bloody stupid, but that's not out of character...

Think of a spaniel... Lots of energy, fairly loveable, but never learns, is daft as a brush and just gets up again after being told off.....

Please read what you have written.
Doesn't bode well for his future if you say he is daft as a brush, never learns and to think of a Spaniel.
Just as we'll he put down his "short term employer" as a reference and not yourself.

He's 18.... Plenty of time to mature, and the above was not intended to be a reference. He's enjoying his training which is half the battle....

Eta are you my sister in-law?

Edited by surveyor on Wednesday 16th July 23:51

[Mr Classic]

Does seem a bit of a pisstake, that apprentice wage is only for the first year mind, changes to standard minimum wage after that. Not all employers are bad, I've just accepted an apprenticeship paying £6.50, although that is in Aeronautical Engineering rather than Waitering... Anything he has a particular interest in that he can get a 'proper' apprenticeship in?

[tighnamara]

surveyor said:

He's 18.... Plenty of time to mature, and the above was not intended to be a reference. He's enjoying his training which is half the battle....

Eta are you my sister in-law?

Edited by surveyor on Wednesday 16th July 23:51

Was a bit tongue in cheek, but do think that the experience he gets in the next while will far out weigh getting a few pound extra.
All a big learning curve and really hope he finds his vocation and has a good career in front of him.
I am sure you will do your best for him, hope he settles into something suitable soon.

PS. Your sister in law must be a top girl. LOL

[surveyor]

Feel for the lad this weekend...

Told Friday night that they did not feel comfortable with his knowledge and not the job for him....

He'd really been trying hard, and had been enjoying it. It's hit him hard.

I was away most of the week, but I suspect he's been treating it like school and asking too many questions. His SouthWest accent does not help and makes him sound dumber than he is.

Back to the drawing board....

[Blown2CV]

OK so is this the second job you're talking about now?

[surveyor]

Blown2CV said:

OK so is this the second job you're talking about now?

Yes. I think they've been a little harsh in not giving him a few more days, but it's their business and they know what works.

What's important to me is that he put the effort in, and that he does not get demoralised and keeps looking.

[oldbanger]

If he 's struggling to stay in paid employment and his financial situation allows for it, I would encourage him to try volunteering whilst he searches for his next paid job. Charity shop if needs be, though working directly with people, animals or grafting (e.g. Scrub clearance, regeneration etc) may be more rewarding.

Good luck.

[Blown2CV]

Does seem harsh to tell them they don't feel comfortable with his knowledge when it's quite clearly an entry level job. What job was it again?