Lifting at work
Discussion
I joined a company selling heavy diagnostic equipment. When I joined, it was explained that engineers would deliver and move about the equipment in their vans, with very occasional need to move it myself via car (the heaviest is about 45kg unevenly distributed). We also have medical tables which are large (as in fill the back of an estate car) and weigh about the same.
Since joining, it's actually been down to me to collect and move the kit around. This is having an impact on my back, as I'm quite slight in build and the lifting and twisting I need to do to get things in and out means I have no way of avoiding my back taking the strain. leaning over and putting the 45kg kit onto the back seat of the car is very uncomfortable.
Sadly, in the past month the person who hired me has been ousted and a little Hitler put in his place. THe relationship is already becoming strained and I am concerned that if I make a fuss over the weight, I am going to find myself out of a job. Having only been there 5 months, I am not protected by unfair dismissal provisions and I don't know whether serious breaches of HSE lifting guidance and my refusal to continue with them would offer me any protection were I to be fired for this reason (my performance otherwise is not in question).
I'm already looking to move on but would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of these kind of matters.
Since joining, it's actually been down to me to collect and move the kit around. This is having an impact on my back, as I'm quite slight in build and the lifting and twisting I need to do to get things in and out means I have no way of avoiding my back taking the strain. leaning over and putting the 45kg kit onto the back seat of the car is very uncomfortable.
Sadly, in the past month the person who hired me has been ousted and a little Hitler put in his place. THe relationship is already becoming strained and I am concerned that if I make a fuss over the weight, I am going to find myself out of a job. Having only been there 5 months, I am not protected by unfair dismissal provisions and I don't know whether serious breaches of HSE lifting guidance and my refusal to continue with them would offer me any protection were I to be fired for this reason (my performance otherwise is not in question).
I'm already looking to move on but would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of these kind of matters.
Edited by tenpenceshort on Thursday 10th July 10:14
Contravenes the Man Han Regs
Regs are below... Good Practice can be found here http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf What you're being asked to lift is way above RGP - max 25kg under optimal lift conditions.
Each employer shall—
(a)so far as is reasonably practicable, avoid the need for his employees to undertake any manual handling operations at work which involve a risk of their being injured; or
(b)where it is not reasonably practicable to avoid the need for his employees to undertake any manual handling operations at work which involve a risk of their being injured—
(i)make a suitable and sufficient assessment of all such manual handling operations to be undertaken by them, having regard to the factors which are specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations and considering the questions which are specified in the corresponding entry in column 2 of that Schedule,
(ii)take appropriate steps to reduce the risk of injury to those employees arising out of their undertaking any such manual handling operations to the lowest level reasonably practicable, and
(iii)take appropriate steps to provide any of those employees who are undertaking any such manual handling operations with general indications and, where it is reasonably practicable to do so, precise information on—
(aa)the weight of each load, and
(bb)the heaviest side of any load whose centre of gravity is not positioned centrally.
(2) Any assessment such as is referred to in paragraph (1)(b)(i) of this regulation shall be reviewed by the employer who made it if—
(a)there is reason to suspect that it is no longer valid; or
(b)there has been a significant change in the manual handling operations to which it relates;
and where as a result of any such review changes to an assessment are required, the relevant employer shall make them.
Regs are below... Good Practice can be found here http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf What you're being asked to lift is way above RGP - max 25kg under optimal lift conditions.
Each employer shall—
(a)so far as is reasonably practicable, avoid the need for his employees to undertake any manual handling operations at work which involve a risk of their being injured; or
(b)where it is not reasonably practicable to avoid the need for his employees to undertake any manual handling operations at work which involve a risk of their being injured—
(i)make a suitable and sufficient assessment of all such manual handling operations to be undertaken by them, having regard to the factors which are specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations and considering the questions which are specified in the corresponding entry in column 2 of that Schedule,
(ii)take appropriate steps to reduce the risk of injury to those employees arising out of their undertaking any such manual handling operations to the lowest level reasonably practicable, and
(iii)take appropriate steps to provide any of those employees who are undertaking any such manual handling operations with general indications and, where it is reasonably practicable to do so, precise information on—
(aa)the weight of each load, and
(bb)the heaviest side of any load whose centre of gravity is not positioned centrally.
(2) Any assessment such as is referred to in paragraph (1)(b)(i) of this regulation shall be reviewed by the employer who made it if—
(a)there is reason to suspect that it is no longer valid; or
(b)there has been a significant change in the manual handling operations to which it relates;
and where as a result of any such review changes to an assessment are required, the relevant employer shall make them.
If anyone could recommend a reasonable employment specialist I'd like to take advice on whether a disclosure to the company over the ongoing HSE breaches (which apply to two of us in the company at the moment and we are hiring further sales people) would lead to protection under PIDA 1998? My back is today killing me after lifting the gear into the car, out again and wheeling it half a mile into a hospital.
tenpenceshort said:
If anyone could recommend a reasonable employment specialist I'd like to take advice on whether a disclosure to the company over the ongoing HSE breaches (which apply to two of us in the company at the moment and we are hiring further sales people) would lead to protection under PIDA 1998? My back is today killing me after lifting the gear into the car, out again and wheeling it half a mile into a hospital.
You should be as your company appear to be failing to reduce health and safety risks so far as is reasonably practicable, i.e. contravention of section 2 of HASAWA 1974. Have a look at HSE's news section - they publish the details of all their prosecutions.
As it stands I would guess it would certainly attract a prohibition / improvement notice. If someone was injured then possibly a prosecution.
Don't let them knacker your back as it really is such a debilitating injury.
We have many operations within our facility which require lifting heavy (>25kg) loads. We have provided lifting equipment, reduced the weight or increased the people required as appropriate. (so dependent upon frequency, awkwardness and ease to engineer out)
I would expect the same from any decent employer. I helped facilitate the changes, and the worse thing was someone 'moaning' about an issue - so I always asked for improvement ideas. This got people involved in the solution and greater buy-in.
So, I would suggest approaching your employer with some 'reasonable' ideas to help your situation. There are many ways to deal with manual handling issues, some not very expensive. I assume you have had some manual handling training prior to starting?
Mike
I would expect the same from any decent employer. I helped facilitate the changes, and the worse thing was someone 'moaning' about an issue - so I always asked for improvement ideas. This got people involved in the solution and greater buy-in.
So, I would suggest approaching your employer with some 'reasonable' ideas to help your situation. There are many ways to deal with manual handling issues, some not very expensive. I assume you have had some manual handling training prior to starting?
Mike
http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/mac/ is a good source of help on manual lifting as well.
Well if you mess up your back, you're the only one who has live with it. No amount of money will fix that.
I would raise the issue with management, if nothing is done then if you need to moved something always go and bother the manager to help, with a bit of luck he might hurt his back lifting something.
I would raise the issue with management, if nothing is done then if you need to moved something always go and bother the manager to help, with a bit of luck he might hurt his back lifting something.
tenpenceshort said:
If anyone could recommend a reasonable employment specialist
Not sure if it's actually lawyers you're looking for quite yet, but a friend of a friend works here. They had a partner give me some very good (free) advice on a difficult aspect of employment law which resulted in me not having to use their services. That's the limit of my contact so it wasn't much, but I was left very impressed. HTH.0000 said:
Not sure if it's actually lawyers.
The reason I need legal advice is to help protect me by advising the best way I bring this to the attention of management as a problem.As I have not been there 2 years, I may be seen as a problem person and disposed of rather than the issue dealt with. I don't believe I have any unfair dismissal protection. If I bring it to their attention by way of a disclosure qualifying under Public Interest Disclosure Act they cannot fire me for that reason and, without any other reason, will have to act very carefully (there is no limit on damages in such cases).
The advice I need relates to whether it can be a qualifying disclosure under PIDA and, if so, how it needs to be worded to gain maximum protection (particularly with regard to the public interest element required).
Since last year there has been a requirement for the employee to have a reasonable belief that the disclosure is in the public interest. Unfortunately the public interest requirement isn't defined in the legislation and there is no guidance or case law. It is probably the case that it apples to a class of persons. Health and safety breaches are, arguably at least, in their nature in the public interest.
In addition to the public interest requirement a disclosure must convey facts about the wrongdoing rather than just expressing dissatisfaction. This is a disclosure under 43B 1(d) ERA 1996.
Breadvan will probably say this is a pedantic point but nonetheless it is relevant. See S100 (1) (c) ERA 1996 as a dismissal for raising H&S concerns with your employer or safety rep. can be automatically unfair and there is no qualifying period of employment for this type of dismissal.
In addition to the public interest requirement a disclosure must convey facts about the wrongdoing rather than just expressing dissatisfaction. This is a disclosure under 43B 1(d) ERA 1996.
Breadvan will probably say this is a pedantic point but nonetheless it is relevant. See S100 (1) (c) ERA 1996 as a dismissal for raising H&S concerns with your employer or safety rep. can be automatically unfair and there is no qualifying period of employment for this type of dismissal.
Well, this took an interesting and swift turn yesterday.
For some time I had been scheduled to have an initial sales meeting yesterday with the new UK chief and the guy who's been shuffled across to sales manager (who I do not have a good relationship with). I was also due to collect some heavy kit for a trial today.
As planned, I drove down from Leeds to Sandhurst yesterday morning. The sales manager was not there. They let me load the kit, then work for three hours, before the UK chief and financial controller sat me down and said my work "was good", but they could not afford to keep me, as times are hard. I pointed out that I was making a profit, so their position did not make sense (I am also their only sales person). They fluffed about for a couple of minutes before thrusting a document in my face to sign offering 4 weeks pay as severance (my contract entitled me to one week), and they would give me a lift to the station.
A fairly frank discussion followed, mentioning their inaction regards my back troubles and their insistence on my lifting way beyond HSE guidelines. We compromised on 10 weeks salary in return for waiving right to any claims against them. This was a take it right now or get nothing agreement. Hopefully I won't have any long lasting back problems to make me regret signing it.
On a side note, they refused to make me redundant. Does anyone know the tax implications with regards settlement agreements?
For some time I had been scheduled to have an initial sales meeting yesterday with the new UK chief and the guy who's been shuffled across to sales manager (who I do not have a good relationship with). I was also due to collect some heavy kit for a trial today.
As planned, I drove down from Leeds to Sandhurst yesterday morning. The sales manager was not there. They let me load the kit, then work for three hours, before the UK chief and financial controller sat me down and said my work "was good", but they could not afford to keep me, as times are hard. I pointed out that I was making a profit, so their position did not make sense (I am also their only sales person). They fluffed about for a couple of minutes before thrusting a document in my face to sign offering 4 weeks pay as severance (my contract entitled me to one week), and they would give me a lift to the station.
A fairly frank discussion followed, mentioning their inaction regards my back troubles and their insistence on my lifting way beyond HSE guidelines. We compromised on 10 weeks salary in return for waiving right to any claims against them. This was a take it right now or get nothing agreement. Hopefully I won't have any long lasting back problems to make me regret signing it.
On a side note, they refused to make me redundant. Does anyone know the tax implications with regards settlement agreements?
spikeyhead said:
If ti was couched as a redundancy, then the first week of the ten is PILON and taxable as normal, the rest is tax free.
It's termed as full and final settlement equivalent to 2.5 months salary. They expressly refused redundancy as the paperwork is too onerous on them. My concern is that they're intending to pay it as normal payroll, which they say will be subject to tax and NI as normal, and that I'll have to claim back any tax from HMRC. Every penny will count whilst I look for another role and if possible I'd like the bulk of the amount paid gross.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff