Unreasonable Employer - Expenses
Discussion
In your example, it means that the employee is out of pocket to the tune of £1,000 for probably one month each and every month - £1,000 that is by rights something that should be in THEIR bank account and not their employer's.
IF the employer is prompt and diligent in putting the money into the employee's account at the earliest possible moment, then the situation is not too bad.
But if the employer creates issues and problems that delay repaying these expense claims, then it can have a detrimental effect on the individual's personal cash flow.
And, of course, it is highly unlikely that the expense claims will be a similar amount each and every month or week. It's much more likely that the expense claims will vary by quite a bit - some months being high, some being low.
Which of course would compound the problems for an employee trying to manage their personal cash flow - especially if the employer is being obstructive and difficult.
IF the employer is prompt and diligent in putting the money into the employee's account at the earliest possible moment, then the situation is not too bad.
But if the employer creates issues and problems that delay repaying these expense claims, then it can have a detrimental effect on the individual's personal cash flow.
And, of course, it is highly unlikely that the expense claims will be a similar amount each and every month or week. It's much more likely that the expense claims will vary by quite a bit - some months being high, some being low.
Which of course would compound the problems for an employee trying to manage their personal cash flow - especially if the employer is being obstructive and difficult.
dancole90 said:
I explained there was no way I can manage it and explained why.
Be careful of backing yourself into a corner. They might say "In that case you can't do the job - bye then".dancole90 said:
Just had a response from HR with a sarky comment about how no one else seems to struggle.
Do you know if that's true? Many people run their finances very tight. Are your expenses more than most colleagues?To be honest, the second point is none of the employer's business.
Every individual's personal (and private) financial affairs are their own affair. If an employee has tight circumstance that is all the employer needs to know.
And as for the first point, if an employer used that as an excuse to get rid of someone that would be definitely a case of Unfair Dismissal.
How an individual manages their personal finances has no bearing whatsoever on their ability to do the job for which they have been hired to do.
Every individual's personal (and private) financial affairs are their own affair. If an employee has tight circumstance that is all the employer needs to know.
And as for the first point, if an employer used that as an excuse to get rid of someone that would be definitely a case of Unfair Dismissal.
How an individual manages their personal finances has no bearing whatsoever on their ability to do the job for which they have been hired to do.
Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 24th July 13:16
Sheepshanks said:
Do you know if that's true? Many people run their finances very tight. Are your expenses more than most colleagues?
Most engineers all come to a little more as i've had no choice but to pick the cheapest possible hotel, and be really cheap on where or what I eat, while they will always pick a nice premier inn and spend the £8 breakfast and £20 meal budget each day. They are also all paid a little more due to experience/ time with company etc.Also, if they threatened to let me go due to that, where would I stand in terms or tribunal? My actual work has never been negatively commented on, customers actually request me personally to attend. Every company appraisal has been positive, backed up my pay rises and bonuses every year. I have never said I was not willing to work away, stop in hotels etc, i understood it was a part of the job when i joined. I have tried on numerous occasions to rectify the problem with them not just in my interest but also the companies, there have been times I have had to say I cant stop away (well in advance i'll add) and the job has had to be postponed UNTIL I GET PAID or another engineer who does not know the site has had to attend and spend the first half of the day learning the site, leaving a client unhappy.
There is also no mention in my contract of financial difficulties. I've heard of people losing their job because of bad debts.
dancole90 said:
Also, if they threatened to let me go due to that, where would I stand in terms or tribunal? My actual work has never been negatively commented on, customers actually request me personally to attend. Every company appraisal has been positive, backed up my pay rises and bonuses every year.
They would be fools to try that on (see my comments above). Breadvan 72 is our resident employment law expert. I would be inclined to perhaps pm him to see if he has an opinion on your situation.
Sheepshanks said:
How long have you worked there? I got the impression it wasn't long, but scanning back through the thread maybe that's incorrect.
I have worked there for 3 years. In that time I have had financial difficulties personally but managed with a bit of careful spending and started to see a tiny glimmer of light out there but the problem has really only escalated in the last 12 months since the policy change.Sheepshanks said:
dancole90 said:
Just had a response from HR with a sarky comment about how no one else seems to struggle.
Do you know if that's true? Many people run their finances very tight. Are your expenses more than most colleagues?Many people will be unhappy with situations or circumstances but don't have the confidence to confront "the company" about them.
DavesFlaps said:
It could just be that no-one else has raised the issue with HR or Management before.
Many people will be unhappy with situations or circumstances but don't have the confidence to confront "the company" about them.
It could be they've also raised it and been rebuffed too.Many people will be unhappy with situations or circumstances but don't have the confidence to confront "the company" about them.
put in writing to your manager the amount of credit you can get and the shortfall this will cause - this will involve you not being able to get hotels etc past week 1 of every month - ask for their suggestion as to how this situation can be resolved.
termination of your contract wont be on their mind as def. unfair dismissal, especially as you will have a copy of your letter to prove that you highlighted the issue.
one way they could resolve this is to pay your expenses 4 times per month until your credit limit is raised to 500 ( then drop to 2 payments per month) and finally 1000 (1 payment per month).
I dont see how they can say no to more frequent expense payments unless they book/pay for all your expenses past the 250 limit on your card.
termination of your contract wont be on their mind as def. unfair dismissal, especially as you will have a copy of your letter to prove that you highlighted the issue.
one way they could resolve this is to pay your expenses 4 times per month until your credit limit is raised to 500 ( then drop to 2 payments per month) and finally 1000 (1 payment per month).
I dont see how they can say no to more frequent expense payments unless they book/pay for all your expenses past the 250 limit on your card.
You should put in an expenses claim for each and every item as soon as you have paid for it, this should cut the lead time for repayment and mean that any problem only occurs on a single item.
If they pay these claims promptly (and there is no excuse not to) then this will limit the credit that you need to have.
If they claim that they only have one expenses "run" per month, you need to query this all the way up to the Finance Director and explain to him the difficulties you are in.
Perhaps they could consider making the expenses payments directly into the credit-card account.
This way you should build up your credit limit pretty quickly.
If they pay these claims promptly (and there is no excuse not to) then this will limit the credit that you need to have.
If they claim that they only have one expenses "run" per month, you need to query this all the way up to the Finance Director and explain to him the difficulties you are in.
Perhaps they could consider making the expenses payments directly into the credit-card account.
This way you should build up your credit limit pretty quickly.
Unfortunately this is far from uncommon.
I've had my CC limit upped to £25k to cover this, which I don't mind as I get more than enough rewards, I don't mind paying the yearly fee myself, I even put through fellow employees hotel bills through for them sometimes, the only worry is that although the company always pays on time if they were to go tits up then I'd imagine I'd be miles down the list of people owed money.
I've had my CC limit upped to £25k to cover this, which I don't mind as I get more than enough rewards, I don't mind paying the yearly fee myself, I even put through fellow employees hotel bills through for them sometimes, the only worry is that although the company always pays on time if they were to go tits up then I'd imagine I'd be miles down the list of people owed money.
Expenses are strictly done once a month, to be submitted 5 working days prior to payday, and then paid along with your salary. I've already tried to arrange weekly or even just fortnightly expense submissions but was told due to the size of the company, to no avail.
HR manager emailed me yesterday evening and advised that she's passed it onto the finance director. He has just phoned me and said he will shortly be arranging a forum where all staff can voice any concerns or ask questions with regard to expenses. I will certainly be raising the issue once again but hopefully once we know the general consensus, something will be done. Even those who can manage the expenses surely aren't really happy they have to go into their own pockets??!!
HR manager emailed me yesterday evening and advised that she's passed it onto the finance director. He has just phoned me and said he will shortly be arranging a forum where all staff can voice any concerns or ask questions with regard to expenses. I will certainly be raising the issue once again but hopefully once we know the general consensus, something will be done. Even those who can manage the expenses surely aren't really happy they have to go into their own pockets??!!
Eric Mc said:
Yes - you are taking a massive risk for very little reward.
I don't think people realise that some of the company charge cards are the same. The company pay for the facility but liability remains with the employee and, in the even a company went bust, the payment terms for the card holder are even less agreeable than a standard credit card. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff