Being asked to resign?
Discussion
I hoping for a bit of advice before tomorrow afternoon as this has all happened a bit fast.
I recently left an engineering position to move to a field technical sales role which involved earning commission etc. I quickly found out it wasn't for me and started looking for another job back in engineering. I started the sales role 9th June. This morning I let my boss know I had had a job offer which I had accepted but would like to continue working until my security clearance went through and I was given a start date for my new role which will probably be about 4 weeks. He said we should be able to work something out.
At the end of today he said he had spoke to the director and I had to drive up to the office tomorrow and hand over my laptop, car, phone etc. and that would be that, end of employment essentially. This is because they don't want me visiting key accounts introducing myself as the new salesmen and then them having to explain why I have left a month or so down the line, thus loosing them credibility. I then receive an email later this evening saying I need to forward my resignation letter to my boss before I drop my things off tomorrow. Now whilst I understand their reasoning for not wanting me to visit customers I feel they are forcing me to resign when I said I was happy to work and work with them for a solution. Remember I only said I had a job offer which I had accepted. I have not sent them a resignation letter. I obviously don't want to be out of work for 4 weeks but that is looking the case. Yes in hindsight I should have kept my gob shut, however I prefer to be honest.
Now I'm not looking to create an unfair dismissal case or anything like that I just want to know what I should be entitled to and possibly how to go about the meeting tomorrow. I believe I am entitled to my weeks notice pay, having worked there longer than 1 month. I am also owed ~£1.5K of commission which they normally pay quarterly.
The employee handbook has no details on commission or notice period.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I am also planning on phoning the CAB before I go up there tomorrow as well.
Cheers.
I recently left an engineering position to move to a field technical sales role which involved earning commission etc. I quickly found out it wasn't for me and started looking for another job back in engineering. I started the sales role 9th June. This morning I let my boss know I had had a job offer which I had accepted but would like to continue working until my security clearance went through and I was given a start date for my new role which will probably be about 4 weeks. He said we should be able to work something out.
At the end of today he said he had spoke to the director and I had to drive up to the office tomorrow and hand over my laptop, car, phone etc. and that would be that, end of employment essentially. This is because they don't want me visiting key accounts introducing myself as the new salesmen and then them having to explain why I have left a month or so down the line, thus loosing them credibility. I then receive an email later this evening saying I need to forward my resignation letter to my boss before I drop my things off tomorrow. Now whilst I understand their reasoning for not wanting me to visit customers I feel they are forcing me to resign when I said I was happy to work and work with them for a solution. Remember I only said I had a job offer which I had accepted. I have not sent them a resignation letter. I obviously don't want to be out of work for 4 weeks but that is looking the case. Yes in hindsight I should have kept my gob shut, however I prefer to be honest.
Now I'm not looking to create an unfair dismissal case or anything like that I just want to know what I should be entitled to and possibly how to go about the meeting tomorrow. I believe I am entitled to my weeks notice pay, having worked there longer than 1 month. I am also owed ~£1.5K of commission which they normally pay quarterly.
The employee handbook has no details on commission or notice period.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I am also planning on phoning the CAB before I go up there tomorrow as well.
Cheers.
IANAL but I believe as you've been there less than 2 years, they can pretty much tell you to sling your hook immediately and there's nothing you can do about it, so I don't think you can "force" them to bend over backwards to help you. I wouldn't hold your breath for the commission either.
Hopefully someone that knows what they're talking about will be along in a mo.
Hopefully someone that knows what they're talking about will be along in a mo.
Regarding commission, you'll be lucky to see a penny of that; I don't think I have ever heard of a case where someone has been paid commission ahead of time due to resignation.
I've always been in sales and my last two roles have finished very similarly to yours now. From a business perspective, they don't see the reason why they should have to pay you a salary, when you have little motivation or incentive to close sales during a time when you're mentally half-way out of the door. In their view, you won't be fulfilling the role that you're being paid to do during this time.
I've previously found myself out of the door literally 10 minutes after saying I had accepted another role elsewhere (after being there 6 months) and then had to wait 6 weeks for all the background checks to be completed at my new place.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's just the nature of the beast that is sales, in my experience.
I've always been in sales and my last two roles have finished very similarly to yours now. From a business perspective, they don't see the reason why they should have to pay you a salary, when you have little motivation or incentive to close sales during a time when you're mentally half-way out of the door. In their view, you won't be fulfilling the role that you're being paid to do during this time.
I've previously found myself out of the door literally 10 minutes after saying I had accepted another role elsewhere (after being there 6 months) and then had to wait 6 weeks for all the background checks to be completed at my new place.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's just the nature of the beast that is sales, in my experience.
Your right to the commission you have earned to date will depend on what your contract says... But in my experience it is very usual for salespersons' contracts to forfeit their right to commission if they resign.
IANAL, but I believe given you have worked less than 2 years you have limited employment rights other than your contractual notice. Unfortunately this is an example of why behaving properly can be expensive (if you hadn't told them until your notice period ran up to your new start date they wouldn't have been able to leave you without work).
But congratulations, at least you get time off when the weather is great, and have a new job you want to do! And it sounds like they won't make you work your week of notice (which I believe they have to pay your for).
Edited to add: if you haven't yet submitted a resignation letter, i wouldn't take one to the meeting... Just go and listen to what they have to say. Set out your position that you wanted to be helpful and give them as much notice as was possible and that you are willing to work up till your new start date and see what options they give you. As you say they can't force you to resign (but they can i believe dismiss you). You may even get an extra day's pay if you ask for the night to think it over and then formally start your notice the following day.
IANAL, but I believe given you have worked less than 2 years you have limited employment rights other than your contractual notice. Unfortunately this is an example of why behaving properly can be expensive (if you hadn't told them until your notice period ran up to your new start date they wouldn't have been able to leave you without work).
But congratulations, at least you get time off when the weather is great, and have a new job you want to do! And it sounds like they won't make you work your week of notice (which I believe they have to pay your for).
Edited to add: if you haven't yet submitted a resignation letter, i wouldn't take one to the meeting... Just go and listen to what they have to say. Set out your position that you wanted to be helpful and give them as much notice as was possible and that you are willing to work up till your new start date and see what options they give you. As you say they can't force you to resign (but they can i believe dismiss you). You may even get an extra day's pay if you ask for the night to think it over and then formally start your notice the following day.
Edited by sm1tty on Monday 28th July 23:44
sm1tty said:
Your right to the commission you have earned to date will depend on what your contract says... But in my experience it is very usual for salespersons' contracts to forfeit their right to commission if they resign.
IANAL, but I believe given you have worked less than 2 years you have limited employment rights other than your contractual notice. Unfortunately this is an example of why behaving properly can be expensive (if you hadn't told them until your notice period ran up to your new start date they wouldn't have been able to leave you without work).
But congratulations, at least you get time off when the weather is great, and have a new job you want to do! And it sounds like they won't make you work your week of notice (which I believe they have to pay your for).
Edited to add: if you haven't yet submitted a resignation letter, i wouldn't take one to the meeting... Just go and listen to what they have to say. Set out your position that you wanted to be helpful and give them as much notice as was possible and that you are willing to work up till your new start date and see what options they give you. As you say they can't force you to resign (but they can i believe dismiss you). You may even get an extra day's pay if you ask for the night to think it over and then formally start your notice the following day.
Smitty is correct; your statutory notice period is one week, they can't legally not pay you for that week even if you are tending the petunias for that time period. If your contract extends that minimum they should be paying you that too. I can understand their position though; you barely have your feet under the table really, so there's not much point you being there and winding down for almost as much time as you've been winding up. IANAL, but I believe given you have worked less than 2 years you have limited employment rights other than your contractual notice. Unfortunately this is an example of why behaving properly can be expensive (if you hadn't told them until your notice period ran up to your new start date they wouldn't have been able to leave you without work).
But congratulations, at least you get time off when the weather is great, and have a new job you want to do! And it sounds like they won't make you work your week of notice (which I believe they have to pay your for).
Edited to add: if you haven't yet submitted a resignation letter, i wouldn't take one to the meeting... Just go and listen to what they have to say. Set out your position that you wanted to be helpful and give them as much notice as was possible and that you are willing to work up till your new start date and see what options they give you. As you say they can't force you to resign (but they can i believe dismiss you). You may even get an extra day's pay if you ask for the night to think it over and then formally start your notice the following day.
Edited by sm1tty on Monday 28th July 23:44
All the above is true, you've barely arrived in the company so have no rights above the bare minimum, and if you look at it from the company's view, they've probably invested a fair chunk of money in recruiting you to the job, so will be smarting a bit from this.
Honestly? Hand everything back straight away, give them a resignation letter, apologise that it hasn't worked out and try your damndest to part on good terms. Then go and enjoy the good weather, knowing you do have a job to go to in August.
Bear in mind they could choose to dismiss you without providing a reason, and are giving you a chance to resign instead, which is far better from a career\cv point of view. Also, if you are still going through security vetting, not being fired from your last job probably helps. (Your job offer will be subject to clearing that vetting.)
The commission? If they offer any of it consider yourself hugely lucky. In the circumstances, I'd probably write it off, bering in mind you may still need a positive reference from them.
Honestly? Hand everything back straight away, give them a resignation letter, apologise that it hasn't worked out and try your damndest to part on good terms. Then go and enjoy the good weather, knowing you do have a job to go to in August.
Bear in mind they could choose to dismiss you without providing a reason, and are giving you a chance to resign instead, which is far better from a career\cv point of view. Also, if you are still going through security vetting, not being fired from your last job probably helps. (Your job offer will be subject to clearing that vetting.)
The commission? If they offer any of it consider yourself hugely lucky. In the circumstances, I'd probably write it off, bering in mind you may still need a positive reference from them.
Had the meeting today. I had a quick word with the CAB before hand who confirmed my thoughts about the weeks pay. I just wanted to know what I was entitled to before going in there.
Everything handed over fine, it sounded like they weren't going to give me the weeks pay until I mentioned it and that was the law having spoken to the CAB. They then got a bit defensive about it and said we didn't need to involve the CAB and that they would look into it but not to hold my breath and they would also look into the commission possibly.
On the way home the HR manager rang and said the weeks pay would not be a problem and the the sales director would check to see how much commission I was due if any and depending on how much I had 'worked' on each case. A better result than I expected after immediately leaving as I felt I would probably end up with nothing. My boss said he was also happy to give me a good reference if needed. So I didn't leave on a bad note.
Everything handed over fine, it sounded like they weren't going to give me the weeks pay until I mentioned it and that was the law having spoken to the CAB. They then got a bit defensive about it and said we didn't need to involve the CAB and that they would look into it but not to hold my breath and they would also look into the commission possibly.
On the way home the HR manager rang and said the weeks pay would not be a problem and the the sales director would check to see how much commission I was due if any and depending on how much I had 'worked' on each case. A better result than I expected after immediately leaving as I felt I would probably end up with nothing. My boss said he was also happy to give me a good reference if needed. So I didn't leave on a bad note.
The moral of this story is, you say NOTHING to your current employer until you are in a position to resign - new contract signed + start date agreed. Be 'nice' to them if you want, but you've just found out there's always a risk. Hopefully your new job will fall into place and nothing much is lost, but trust me it doesn't always work out like that!
japgt said:
Surely if you have 1.5k commision earnt whilst working there they cant take that away just because you have chosen to move on to a new position? Thats effectively the same as not paying you for holiday entitlement not taken during a period that youve accrued?
I think the holiday entitlement is possibly a legal requirement whereas commission is paid dependant on how OP's contract is worded. It will probably say "this is the commission structure, which we reserve the right to alter at will, any way we like", so trying to get any commission earnt, paid, is going to be an uphill struggle unless they're feeling generous.I have a friend who worked for a BIG IT distributor and they changed the commission structure AND backdated it a month or two as well so people thought they were getting X and then got Y instead on sales they'd already made. IIRC they didn't even notify anyone either, it was only when people started querying their wage slips that it came to light!
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