Bachelor vs Masters degree... Difference in the real world
Discussion
I did a BEng in Engineering at Loughborough University. About 80% of the people on my course did the BEng and 20% the MEng. I would say about 50% of the people on the BEng got graduate jobs in Engineering when we left and are doing pretty well career wise. I haven't stayed in touch with everyone on the MEng course but all the people I am still in touch with on the MEng course got good graduate engineering jobs.
I always slightly regret not staying on and doing the MEng course but it meant re-sitting a couple of exams and money and fast cars beckoned! I also did an industrial placement year with a company back home prior to my final year and was dating a girl that I didn't want to be away from for 2 years (in hindsight, the relationship didn't make it to the end of my final year)! Looking at the bigger picture, all silly reasons not to do the MEng but I was young and naive!
I just wondered, in the real world job market, how much difference does it make having a Masters rather than a Bachelors degree. Is your earning potential greater and does it help you progress in your career quicker.
As I said, I have friends who did the BEng and got the same class of degree as me, who got good jobs. I spent a year in a minimum wage job attending lots of interviews and `assessment centres`for non-graduate specific jobs before giving up and over the next 10 years going into sales and teaching. The most common reason for being unsuccessful given being a lack of relevant work experience in the field (not sure how I was supposed to have had this)! Not just down to the degree though I`m sure. I was as capable as my peers but lacked confidence in my early 20s. My success rate in interviews is much higher now.
Good news is, I`m finally working in Engineering (for the last year) but in an unrelated field to my course (Automotive Engineering). I just wonder sometimes whether I would have got here quicker with an MEng and where I would be in my career now. Don`t get me wrong, I`m not complaining. My life would have been very different if I had not done the things that I had done. I wouldn`t have met my wife and have the two fantastic children that I now have for starters!
I always slightly regret not staying on and doing the MEng course but it meant re-sitting a couple of exams and money and fast cars beckoned! I also did an industrial placement year with a company back home prior to my final year and was dating a girl that I didn't want to be away from for 2 years (in hindsight, the relationship didn't make it to the end of my final year)! Looking at the bigger picture, all silly reasons not to do the MEng but I was young and naive!
I just wondered, in the real world job market, how much difference does it make having a Masters rather than a Bachelors degree. Is your earning potential greater and does it help you progress in your career quicker.
As I said, I have friends who did the BEng and got the same class of degree as me, who got good jobs. I spent a year in a minimum wage job attending lots of interviews and `assessment centres`for non-graduate specific jobs before giving up and over the next 10 years going into sales and teaching. The most common reason for being unsuccessful given being a lack of relevant work experience in the field (not sure how I was supposed to have had this)! Not just down to the degree though I`m sure. I was as capable as my peers but lacked confidence in my early 20s. My success rate in interviews is much higher now.
Good news is, I`m finally working in Engineering (for the last year) but in an unrelated field to my course (Automotive Engineering). I just wonder sometimes whether I would have got here quicker with an MEng and where I would be in my career now. Don`t get me wrong, I`m not complaining. My life would have been very different if I had not done the things that I had done. I wouldn`t have met my wife and have the two fantastic children that I now have for starters!
Real world example.
My brother completed his Masters in Physics last year with a solid 2:1 from a very good university. He immediately started applying for jobs in his chosen career (Patents Attorney). Six interviews later, no job. Standard reason was lack of experience or somebody better for the job. Apparently it is a very small industry with a high percentage of applicants.
So eventually he decides that he will do another Masters in a bolt-on subject that will help him in his career. I can't remember what it is, but is was something suitably complicated and brain melting.
He finished this 2 months ago and had an interview straight away. He was offered a job and started last week.
Now the main point; he applied to this company last year and they hired somebody else instead. The guy they took on is still there and about to begin the course my brother did off his own back. According to his manager, my brother has joined the company at the same level as this guy, but will quickly overtake him as he already has a Masters degree behind him.
So I'm guessing that like the degree/no degree argument; a Masters will help you get a job over somebody else, maybe even elevate you slightly quicker at the start, but eventually it ceases to be massively important once you are established.
My brother completed his Masters in Physics last year with a solid 2:1 from a very good university. He immediately started applying for jobs in his chosen career (Patents Attorney). Six interviews later, no job. Standard reason was lack of experience or somebody better for the job. Apparently it is a very small industry with a high percentage of applicants.
So eventually he decides that he will do another Masters in a bolt-on subject that will help him in his career. I can't remember what it is, but is was something suitably complicated and brain melting.
He finished this 2 months ago and had an interview straight away. He was offered a job and started last week.
Now the main point; he applied to this company last year and they hired somebody else instead. The guy they took on is still there and about to begin the course my brother did off his own back. According to his manager, my brother has joined the company at the same level as this guy, but will quickly overtake him as he already has a Masters degree behind him.
So I'm guessing that like the degree/no degree argument; a Masters will help you get a job over somebody else, maybe even elevate you slightly quicker at the start, but eventually it ceases to be massively important once you are established.
Now that everyone and his dog has a bachelor degree, you need to set yourself apart from the rest. Employers know that fewer spend the time (and money) to complete a masters, ergo, an 'advanced degree' is sometimes specified in job descriptions that filters out many of the applicants.
In a few years time, everyone will be doing a masters degree and the question will be should you take a phd to secure a job
I will say this though, if you are planning on entering an industry such as engineering, I would recommend an advanced degree (masters) it will set you apart from other graduates and, whilst this is looking ahead to the future somewhat, many countries have separate visa classifications for those that hold advanced degrees. It seems trivial now, but it can make a world of difference when moving around.
Chris
In a few years time, everyone will be doing a masters degree and the question will be should you take a phd to secure a job
I will say this though, if you are planning on entering an industry such as engineering, I would recommend an advanced degree (masters) it will set you apart from other graduates and, whilst this is looking ahead to the future somewhat, many countries have separate visa classifications for those that hold advanced degrees. It seems trivial now, but it can make a world of difference when moving around.
Chris
white_goodman said:
I did a BEng in Engineering at Loughborough University. About 80% of the people on my course did the BEng and 20% the MEng. I would say about 50% of the people on the BEng got graduate jobs in Engineering when we left and are doing pretty well career wise. I haven't stayed in touch with everyone on the MEng course but all the people I am still in touch with on the MEng course got good graduate engineering jobs.
Skewed perception I think.I didn't consider doing a Masters. I did do a BSc Software Engineering degree. I also chose to do a year in industry, which entailed going to loads of job fairs and career stuff with fellow students doing the same. When I came back, those people were also still there. Pretty much all of them got good jobs in the end. On the other hand, a high proportion of the other final year CompSci students seemed to be unemployable (at a good university).
There's two things going on there.
One, I met these people not just because they were doing placements, but because they could communicate and were personable, sociable folk. That's also why they were doing placements. Those people were always more employable.
Secondly, people who did placements came back from them with even more employable skills.
So, did they get jobs because they did placements, or was it that people minded to do placements always get jobs? Probably both.
Same with Masters I think, with a slight difference that staying in academia is still somewhere on the path of least resistance IMO, whereas seeking out a job is not.
I've also interviewed lots of graduates. All I wanted to see was a basis for structured learning in academia. Once you've got that, and I can make a relative judgement about the outcome, it's all basically common ground with every other applicant. So, with me and my field at least, a MSc wouldn't itself have got you any more of a job; the stuff you did whilst on it and could then talk about might, but hopefully so would the equivalent year spent working.
All in all I'm biased, and don't know your field, but if it's anything like mine you haven't lost much by missing out on it.
I'm just going into my 4th year of my Mech eng degree and will 100% be doing MEng.
The way the lecturers talk about MEng is all to do with getting CEng in ~4 years instead of ~9 and the benefits to your career with this. However, even when looking for jobs, most large firms require an MSc or MEng.
Also, to get on the MEng course you have to be on track for a 2:1, which is also a requirement for most jobs, you can see where this is going...
I am at a large automotive company just now though and there is a huge mix of people from people who have MEng, BEnd, Bsc, or indeed a few folks that have no higher education at all but are still CEng and working in senior engineering positions in one of the largest companies in engineering.
The way the lecturers talk about MEng is all to do with getting CEng in ~4 years instead of ~9 and the benefits to your career with this. However, even when looking for jobs, most large firms require an MSc or MEng.
Also, to get on the MEng course you have to be on track for a 2:1, which is also a requirement for most jobs, you can see where this is going...
I am at a large automotive company just now though and there is a huge mix of people from people who have MEng, BEnd, Bsc, or indeed a few folks that have no higher education at all but are still CEng and working in senior engineering positions in one of the largest companies in engineering.
I think you know the answer to your question.
When hiring, organisations are of course looking for the best candidate for a particular role. If through continued study you have proven that you take your profession seriously, are committed to CPD and have the drive and determination to complete that higher level of study, why wouldn't I be interested in you as a potential hire? Of course you then need to meet the rest of the PS competencies and perform well at interview, but the higher level of educational attainment at least improves your chance of filtering in to interview.
When hiring, organisations are of course looking for the best candidate for a particular role. If through continued study you have proven that you take your profession seriously, are committed to CPD and have the drive and determination to complete that higher level of study, why wouldn't I be interested in you as a potential hire? Of course you then need to meet the rest of the PS competencies and perform well at interview, but the higher level of educational attainment at least improves your chance of filtering in to interview.
I just did a BSC in IT Management with a year placement and got a job after i graduated. Companies are now looking for experience int he real world rather then extra qualifications.
That said though it depends what you want to go into. My brother did geography and couldn't get a job so decided to do a masters in out of town planning and after he finished got a job with a local council.
I guess simple answer is it's whatever you think is best!
That said though it depends what you want to go into. My brother did geography and couldn't get a job so decided to do a masters in out of town planning and after he finished got a job with a local council.
I guess simple answer is it's whatever you think is best!
This is for those in the chemistry field. You'll notice that in the 40-44 age band there is the MChem degree. When I started Uni (I'm 31 now) this was a new masters level degree which didn't seem to have the same recognition in industry as an MEng degree, but this disparity has probably reduced a tiny bit by now- it certainly benefits salaries.
Worth noting that a lot of graduates in the chemical field end up in jobs where the salaries are rather fixed and can hit the ceiling quite quickly. For instance (and in general) lab technicians for are often paid less than £30k, with modest jumps when taking on managerial roles; they hit the salary ceiling within 5-10 years of graduating. Those with PhDs end up in senior roles in large companies or in academia (profs starting salaries are around £60-65k, with many on £80k plus).
In my part of the world (Civil / Structural Engineering), its all about the route to chartership. Earning power etc. increases once you become CEng (Its a pre-requisite to being a senior / Principal Engineer in my practice). All graduates I see have an MEng now, and I've fallen into the trap of discounting any without (unless its a bloody good CV!).
When I did my degree, it wasn't a problem. I became chartered based on my BEng alone. Now, there's a lot of additional work to be done prior to being considered able to site the interview / exam...
Are MEng candidates better? Not in my experience, they have just completed a few more modules, usually in a peripheral subject. It does demonstrate that they are willing to do the extra work however...
When I did my degree, it wasn't a problem. I became chartered based on my BEng alone. Now, there's a lot of additional work to be done prior to being considered able to site the interview / exam...
Are MEng candidates better? Not in my experience, they have just completed a few more modules, usually in a peripheral subject. It does demonstrate that they are willing to do the extra work however...
I did a BEng at loughborough too, many moons ago now though. The only reason to do a masters and not get real world experience is it makes it a hell of a lot easier to get chartered now days. We get many applications from overly qualified people who have no idea what the molehill to mountain converter in front of them is saying even if its obviously wrong. Ie guy doing oil flow calcs is told that the flow rate is xx ltrs per min, turns out this is the equivalent of several, 45 gal drums......
OP - firstly, you have a solid bachelors degree from a good engineering university. In the automotive industry, based on my last 15 years of experience, you will at some time want/need a masters to move up. Academia isn't everything, and a consistent history of delivering, leadership and exceeding on commitments are critical, but at some point you'll hit a glass ceiling in an OE or large tier-1 without a masters.
In my office (large tier-1), everyone at my level or above me has either an MBA or MSC, and some of the managers that work for me have an MBA as well. The route I took was to get a job with my bachelors and then have the company sponsor my MSC a few years later (completed it part time over two years). Depending on where you want to take your career, you may want an MBA, but you'll need some work experience to do the course. My approach to my MSC was much better than my bachelors as I now wasn't a full time student and had a completely different perspective on things. Since you're now working, why don't you talk to your manager or HR and see what scheme's they have available for you.
So in summary, at some point in the future and dependent on your aspirations, it will likely make a difference.
In my office (large tier-1), everyone at my level or above me has either an MBA or MSC, and some of the managers that work for me have an MBA as well. The route I took was to get a job with my bachelors and then have the company sponsor my MSC a few years later (completed it part time over two years). Depending on where you want to take your career, you may want an MBA, but you'll need some work experience to do the course. My approach to my MSC was much better than my bachelors as I now wasn't a full time student and had a completely different perspective on things. Since you're now working, why don't you talk to your manager or HR and see what scheme's they have available for you.
So in summary, at some point in the future and dependent on your aspirations, it will likely make a difference.
Edited by Woodrow123 on Friday 1st August 11:45
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