Facing a Disciplinary hearing. Help please
Discussion
If they really want to shaft you, they can continue the disciplinary even if you resign and still have a GM finding held on your record.
Without you contesting it properly, then it may be seen as a reasonable finding and then will come up in any future reference check.
I would put your effort into ensuring that they fail in finding you guilty of GM, that's of much more importance than 1 holiday.
If you haven't already spoken to a decent employment lawyer, then do that now.
Without you contesting it properly, then it may be seen as a reasonable finding and then will come up in any future reference check.
I would put your effort into ensuring that they fail in finding you guilty of GM, that's of much more importance than 1 holiday.
If you haven't already spoken to a decent employment lawyer, then do that now.
You can counter claim anyway. If it gets to that stage, neither of you really want to go legal on it, offer them a compromise/settlement agreement scenario where you drop all claims and future claims, in return they give you some money to shut up and give a reference in advance of the dates you worked there from/to
Car wise, hire one, buy a snotter, it's not important
Car wise, hire one, buy a snotter, it's not important
OP, the car is not the important point so we'll come back to that.
You need to understand exactly what will happen in the meeting on Tuesday.
I'm not an expert but you need to understand if worst case scenario is (for example) immediate dismissal, escorted off premises with immediate cessation of all terms of employment and forfeiture of company property, or is the worst case likely to be an accusation that you are given further time to respond to on a later date with no firm / decisive action immediately.
In either case you need to consult an expert, ideally an employment law specialist. If you're in a union, consult your rep. At very least, get a copy of your contract of employment, and read the stuff they gave you, which will probably explain process etc and what rights you retain at the various stages within it.
Then gather all evidence e.g. emails praising your actions in October.
As I understand it - and remember I'm not an expert - if you remain employed on Wednesday, you can take the car on holiday if your contract of employment allows it and it was approved prior to this event. If you're not employed, you can't. Probably best to hire one just in case - especially if you can then cancel without charge if everything goes your way.
You need to understand exactly what will happen in the meeting on Tuesday.
I'm not an expert but you need to understand if worst case scenario is (for example) immediate dismissal, escorted off premises with immediate cessation of all terms of employment and forfeiture of company property, or is the worst case likely to be an accusation that you are given further time to respond to on a later date with no firm / decisive action immediately.
In either case you need to consult an expert, ideally an employment law specialist. If you're in a union, consult your rep. At very least, get a copy of your contract of employment, and read the stuff they gave you, which will probably explain process etc and what rights you retain at the various stages within it.
Then gather all evidence e.g. emails praising your actions in October.
As I understand it - and remember I'm not an expert - if you remain employed on Wednesday, you can take the car on holiday if your contract of employment allows it and it was approved prior to this event. If you're not employed, you can't. Probably best to hire one just in case - especially if you can then cancel without charge if everything goes your way.
SV8Predator said:
he'll most likely have no job to come back to and a very black mark on his record.
Completely agree that this is not the most important thing to be worrying about right now. Oh, and OP,you need to get some actual legal advice rather than the random stuff posted on here! SV8Predator said:
The gaff of having dinner with his "new employer" and being caught out will be one he remembers for a long time. I'm surprised he hasn't been seen off the premises of his current job already.
Completely DISAGREE - why shouldn't he? If the rest of the story is true then you can't go launching into disciplinary proceedings against someone for considering another job. 
Another thing - what a great colleague you have in the one that splammed on you.
I'd make it very clear to the others there that he was the one responsible for this and that they ought to be very wary of trusting him with anything. You never know they might cold shoulder him out and then when he applies to join you at the rivals you can tell your boss all about him.
C'mon OP gives us an update - are you on the sick?
I'd make it very clear to the others there that he was the one responsible for this and that they ought to be very wary of trusting him with anything. You never know they might cold shoulder him out and then when he applies to join you at the rivals you can tell your boss all about him.
C'mon OP gives us an update - are you on the sick?
SV8Predator said:
The gaff of having dinner with his "new employer" and being caught out will be one he remembers for a long time. I'm surprised he hasn't been seen off the premises of his current job already.
Silly person. Maybe next time he can don a pair of glasses and fake beard when he goes out for a meal.There is an old saying "If you have nothing sensible to say you're better saying nothing."
I'd do the following:
A.: Get real world legal advice
B.: Give back the company car before holiday.
C.1.: Rent a nice car for holiday
C.2.: Buy a nice barge I always lusted after for holiday
D: Make them pay for C. via A. after the holiday.
E. Get a good sunburn and a beer at the beach.
But what do I know about legalese in English...
A.: Get real world legal advice
B.: Give back the company car before holiday.
C.1.: Rent a nice car for holiday
C.2.: Buy a nice barge I always lusted after for holiday
D: Make them pay for C. via A. after the holiday.
E. Get a good sunburn and a beer at the beach.
But what do I know about legalese in English...
Right, thought I'd update you all.
So on the Monday spoke to new employers who were quite understanding. The recruiting manager said not to worry about a reference as I'm well known within our industry so I'm safe and sound there.
In regards to my current employers...
Sent a letter in for Monday stating I wish to postpone the hearing until after my annual leave because my union rep wasn't available until next week, and I'm then not available.
Had a phone call from HR before 10am saying they need to know my union rep details, all my union details, and if I could provide that by 1pm they could postpone until Monday 18th. Because I was working and not at home, didn't have union card so just logged onto my account, got an email from my rep saying I'm a member. Company wouldn't accept this so meeting was due to continue on Tuesday.
Spoke to my union; he said just to send a letter on Monday night with my Union card in the post and send it to them. That will be enough an if they continue the hearing despite receiving that they will be breeching my statutory rights. I wrote in the letter he will be attending next week in my absence with a 5,000 word document I've typed up with some pretty lengthy stuff to fight my case.
I went out last night for a curry which has got my stomach playing up so sadly couldn't go in today and had to take a sick day. I spoke to manager's PA as he didn't answer his mobile. Had 47 missed calls today, 32 of which from the office. Car is packed, ready to depart at 9am in the morning.
I will deal with repercussions on my return, but after not having a day off since September last year except bank holidays and weekends, I cannot afford to miss this holiday as I am burnt out.
Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
So on the Monday spoke to new employers who were quite understanding. The recruiting manager said not to worry about a reference as I'm well known within our industry so I'm safe and sound there.
In regards to my current employers...
Sent a letter in for Monday stating I wish to postpone the hearing until after my annual leave because my union rep wasn't available until next week, and I'm then not available.
Had a phone call from HR before 10am saying they need to know my union rep details, all my union details, and if I could provide that by 1pm they could postpone until Monday 18th. Because I was working and not at home, didn't have union card so just logged onto my account, got an email from my rep saying I'm a member. Company wouldn't accept this so meeting was due to continue on Tuesday.
Spoke to my union; he said just to send a letter on Monday night with my Union card in the post and send it to them. That will be enough an if they continue the hearing despite receiving that they will be breeching my statutory rights. I wrote in the letter he will be attending next week in my absence with a 5,000 word document I've typed up with some pretty lengthy stuff to fight my case.
I went out last night for a curry which has got my stomach playing up so sadly couldn't go in today and had to take a sick day. I spoke to manager's PA as he didn't answer his mobile. Had 47 missed calls today, 32 of which from the office. Car is packed, ready to depart at 9am in the morning.
I will deal with repercussions on my return, but after not having a day off since September last year except bank holidays and weekends, I cannot afford to miss this holiday as I am burnt out.
Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
StrippyShirts said:
Right, thought I'd update you all.
Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
And even if it was, hardly an Interpol matter so I doubt the Spanish fuzz will be on the look out for you.Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
Those curries can be a bugger cant they
StrippyShirts said:
Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
Can't see them having any grounds to do this. Assuming the car is part of your renumeration package it is a benefit in kind that you pay tax on. Therefore as part of your numeration package it would normally be entitled to keep it for the duration of your notice period.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Tuesday 12th August 21:04
Anonamoose said:
Hire a car, tell old company to do one. Have great holiday without worrying about what's going to happen on your return. Seriously, not complicated. Whether you're guilty or not I'd not want a dismissal for GMC on my record as such.
what he says!!! Tell ya old boss to feck off get yaself down to enterprise and rent yaself a motor, enjoy ya holiday and come back to a nice spangly new job stress free.Have a nice holiday.
I'm also unsure about all of these reports about black marks and having a record. My employment history has been patchy at best. I made a thread saying I'd been fired a couple of times and left one job under a large cloud with a disciplinary hanging over me. I told my new boss all of this, spoke though my whole life story since I was 16 and basically let him know everything I have done. He gave me a job because we had served in the same Regiment (about 30 odd years apart so we never crossed paths). However I was open and honest, he told me they would get references as part of HR's rules, but not to worry about it as he'd sort that out. He called me in yesterday and asked me what I thought my references said - short side is not one of them mentioned anything negative. The worst I got was worked here from date a to b.
So unless I am the luckiest guy alive, people don't give bad references. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad, and I am sure there is some reason for it. But it does seem to be the way things work.
I'm also unsure about all of these reports about black marks and having a record. My employment history has been patchy at best. I made a thread saying I'd been fired a couple of times and left one job under a large cloud with a disciplinary hanging over me. I told my new boss all of this, spoke though my whole life story since I was 16 and basically let him know everything I have done. He gave me a job because we had served in the same Regiment (about 30 odd years apart so we never crossed paths). However I was open and honest, he told me they would get references as part of HR's rules, but not to worry about it as he'd sort that out. He called me in yesterday and asked me what I thought my references said - short side is not one of them mentioned anything negative. The worst I got was worked here from date a to b.
So unless I am the luckiest guy alive, people don't give bad references. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad, and I am sure there is some reason for it. But it does seem to be the way things work.
photosnob said:
So unless I am the luckiest guy alive, people don't give bad references. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad, and I am sure there is some reason for it. But it does seem to be the way things work.
There is a misplaced fear of bad references, some people think that it is illegal when actually it's an inaccurate reference that is the problem. But it does mean that many companies don't give references or only give every factual ones of the 'worked here between two dates' variety.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff