Good idea to take this job?
Discussion
What would PH do?
My girlfriend has just accepted a job. Big multinational with fingers in many pies (aero, O&G, transport etc etc). The role is in EHS, environment, health and safety. Its a one year grad/intern type thing with no guarantee of a job at the end, although they hired the last person who did it.
The salary is £17,500 pa, 40 hr week, 35 mi round trip commute, private health care.
Now, shes done a degree, a masters and a PhD. All of it is mostly relevant to environmental aspects. She has no industry experience of EHS. Has lots of experience with volunteer teaching and organising of events.
The company basically rang her the minute they saw her CV on their desks. Interviewed her on Friday, job offer on Monday. They were massively impressed with her, her work, her attitude etc. She got a good vibe from the people and the company and it looks to be a foot in the door for a good opportunity.
She finished her PhD earlier this year but has struggled for months to find a job in anything. If they reply at all they say she doesn't have the skills, doesn't have the experience (for graduate and intern roles!) or is over qualified (how can you be over qualified?). She was getting a little desperate on the job front.
Now. Has she sold herself short a little? IMO the company must be very happy they've bagged a PhD level applicant for money many BSc grads with their 2.1's would ignore.
On the one hand its a job and its a great opportunity that could lead to good things or at the worst lead to a years experience and being able to walk away with no ties.
On the other hand, her peers managed to get jobs starting on 7-10k more. They were lucky in a way because they managed to walk into jobs via their supervisors, before places like the EA chopped back loads of staff.
I personally think shes worth more than that. But for the sake of a years poor pay, her career could be on to good things and it'll be worth it in the long run. So on balance, worth going through with it and at the moment we don't need the money (although an extra 400-500/mo would be nice)
Who knows, they may like her, keep her on after a year and with a decent bump in pay! Shes a very capable person who is extremely good at dealing with people. hopefully she'll prove to the just how capable she is in short order.
My girlfriend has just accepted a job. Big multinational with fingers in many pies (aero, O&G, transport etc etc). The role is in EHS, environment, health and safety. Its a one year grad/intern type thing with no guarantee of a job at the end, although they hired the last person who did it.
The salary is £17,500 pa, 40 hr week, 35 mi round trip commute, private health care.
Now, shes done a degree, a masters and a PhD. All of it is mostly relevant to environmental aspects. She has no industry experience of EHS. Has lots of experience with volunteer teaching and organising of events.
The company basically rang her the minute they saw her CV on their desks. Interviewed her on Friday, job offer on Monday. They were massively impressed with her, her work, her attitude etc. She got a good vibe from the people and the company and it looks to be a foot in the door for a good opportunity.
She finished her PhD earlier this year but has struggled for months to find a job in anything. If they reply at all they say she doesn't have the skills, doesn't have the experience (for graduate and intern roles!) or is over qualified (how can you be over qualified?). She was getting a little desperate on the job front.
Now. Has she sold herself short a little? IMO the company must be very happy they've bagged a PhD level applicant for money many BSc grads with their 2.1's would ignore.
On the one hand its a job and its a great opportunity that could lead to good things or at the worst lead to a years experience and being able to walk away with no ties.
On the other hand, her peers managed to get jobs starting on 7-10k more. They were lucky in a way because they managed to walk into jobs via their supervisors, before places like the EA chopped back loads of staff.
I personally think shes worth more than that. But for the sake of a years poor pay, her career could be on to good things and it'll be worth it in the long run. So on balance, worth going through with it and at the moment we don't need the money (although an extra 400-500/mo would be nice)
Who knows, they may like her, keep her on after a year and with a decent bump in pay! Shes a very capable person who is extremely good at dealing with people. hopefully she'll prove to the just how capable she is in short order.
That's extremely crap money, PhD or not, but as you say, better than nothing. At least she can start building some industry experience into her CV.
I'd suggest she takes it and keeps applying for jobs until she either find something that pays better, or is offered a decent role and salary hike by her existing employer.
I'd suggest she takes it and keeps applying for jobs until she either find something that pays better, or is offered a decent role and salary hike by her existing employer.
Right so she is struggling for months to find a job... one comes along months later and you are querying if its beneath her skills?
She could always be unemployed for another 6-12 months?
Even if you found one paying double the money, another 6 months out and she only earns the same amount in 6 months that the other did in a year, but now its a years experience and thats better than pure academia on a CV.
My OH has 2 BA/BSc Degrees and 1 MSc...
She queried the same... I asked her if she like to go out on evenings and go on holidays?
She does, but hadnt been able to for months as it hitting her savings... this included no living costs as it was rent free in my flat... I suggested it might be worth having her life back with some money coming in, rather than always dipping in savings and using up the cash she had saved all because this was not the perfect job.
My OH is educated in environmental sciences/sustainability from Kings in London.
She agreed and went through crappy temp jobs (in environment positions... sort of) and others to just not get cabin fever, etc...
That was for 9-12 months... through one of those jobs, one of her colleagues introduced her to managers at the current place... She now is sustainability manager at a big company.
Sit on ass doing CV after CV after CV... or go out there and work up and get a job that is some times who you know, not what you know.
She could always be unemployed for another 6-12 months?
Even if you found one paying double the money, another 6 months out and she only earns the same amount in 6 months that the other did in a year, but now its a years experience and thats better than pure academia on a CV.
My OH has 2 BA/BSc Degrees and 1 MSc...
She queried the same... I asked her if she like to go out on evenings and go on holidays?
She does, but hadnt been able to for months as it hitting her savings... this included no living costs as it was rent free in my flat... I suggested it might be worth having her life back with some money coming in, rather than always dipping in savings and using up the cash she had saved all because this was not the perfect job.
My OH is educated in environmental sciences/sustainability from Kings in London.
She agreed and went through crappy temp jobs (in environment positions... sort of) and others to just not get cabin fever, etc...
That was for 9-12 months... through one of those jobs, one of her colleagues introduced her to managers at the current place... She now is sustainability manager at a big company.
Sit on ass doing CV after CV after CV... or go out there and work up and get a job that is some times who you know, not what you know.
I am confident that they'll love her and she'll become an integral team member pretty quickly. She's just that sort of person. I'm the opposite, I probably wouldn't have the courage to speak to anyone for the first month!
If the economy is still picking up as it is now I think there's a good chance they'll want to keep her on. If they do I have told her that she needs to get them to make a good offer when or if that comes about.
Way I see it, they're taking a punt on someone with not quite the right background for the role. If she does good then they hopefully will offer a package on par with her skill level when the time comes.
For the sake of a year, I think its worth it and she said the people there seem like a good bunch to work with, very friendly, close knit and relaxed. They don't even wear shirt and trousers...it was all jeans and rugby tops! Although they may have a dress-down friday thing going on. But the fact they didn't smarten up for interview tells me they're probably a good crack!
If the economy is still picking up as it is now I think there's a good chance they'll want to keep her on. If they do I have told her that she needs to get them to make a good offer when or if that comes about.
Way I see it, they're taking a punt on someone with not quite the right background for the role. If she does good then they hopefully will offer a package on par with her skill level when the time comes.
For the sake of a year, I think its worth it and she said the people there seem like a good bunch to work with, very friendly, close knit and relaxed. They don't even wear shirt and trousers...it was all jeans and rugby tops! Although they may have a dress-down friday thing going on. But the fact they didn't smarten up for interview tells me they're probably a good crack!
Du1point8 said:
Right so she is struggling for months to find a job... one comes along months later and you are querying if its beneath her skills?
She could always be unemployed for another 6-12 months?
Even if you found one paying double the money, another 6 months out and she only earns the same amount in 6 months that the other did in a year, but now its a years experience and thats better than pure academia on a CV.
My OH has 2 BA/BSc Degrees and 1 MSc...
She queried the same... I asked her if she like to go out on evenings and go on holidays?
She does, but hadnt been able to for months as it hitting her savings... this included no living costs as it was rent free in my flat... I suggested it might be worth having her life back with some money coming in, rather than always dipping in savings and using up the cash she had saved all because this was not the perfect job.
My OH is educated in environmental sciences/sustainability from Kings in London.
She agreed and went through crappy temp jobs (in environment positions... sort of) and others to just not get cabin fever, etc...
That was for 9-12 months... through one of those jobs, one of her colleagues introduced her to managers at the current place... She now is sustainability manager at a big company.
Sit on ass doing CV after CV after CV... or go out there and work up and get a job that is some times who you know, not what you know.
I don't mean to come across that its beneath her. It clearly isn't and she doesn't feel that way either. I just don't want her to be taken advantage of or for her to rush into a job just because its the first one to get back to her. Like I said, not struggling for money, she could wait still to see what other enquiries bring up. She just wants to get on with her career. Her CV isn't pure academia either. Lots of volunteer and out-reach work, lots of teaching etc. She would be an ace teacher but doesn't want to pursue that route at this time.She could always be unemployed for another 6-12 months?
Even if you found one paying double the money, another 6 months out and she only earns the same amount in 6 months that the other did in a year, but now its a years experience and thats better than pure academia on a CV.
My OH has 2 BA/BSc Degrees and 1 MSc...
She queried the same... I asked her if she like to go out on evenings and go on holidays?
She does, but hadnt been able to for months as it hitting her savings... this included no living costs as it was rent free in my flat... I suggested it might be worth having her life back with some money coming in, rather than always dipping in savings and using up the cash she had saved all because this was not the perfect job.
My OH is educated in environmental sciences/sustainability from Kings in London.
She agreed and went through crappy temp jobs (in environment positions... sort of) and others to just not get cabin fever, etc...
That was for 9-12 months... through one of those jobs, one of her colleagues introduced her to managers at the current place... She now is sustainability manager at a big company.
Sit on ass doing CV after CV after CV... or go out there and work up and get a job that is some times who you know, not what you know.
Thinking about it more, it could well be perfect. This job isn't in her background, its a new tangent. For all she knows she could hate it and the years time could be a god-send.
Your last line is very relevant, pretty much all my jobs have been on a who I knew basis rather than what I knew and how well my CV read. The job I have now is the first job I have ever got through actually sending in a CV.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 12th August 12:32
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 12th August 12:32
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 12th August 12:37
Du1point8 said:
Right so she is struggling for months to find a job... one comes along months later and you are querying if its beneath her skills?
I'm with you on this point.The amount of times I've heard someone say "I'm worth at least £XK" but then are unable to find a job paying X:confusued:
Take the job, do 18 months and then move on. Only this time you have 18 months real life work experience
I agree with some of the above posts....it's easier to find a job once you've got a job.
I'd be snapping it up if I were her, get 6-12 months experience under my belt and then either ask for a raise (if she enjoys it and is doing well) or start looking for something on more money. You never know, if another job does come along, this company may match what they offer for her to stay.
I'd be snapping it up if I were her, get 6-12 months experience under my belt and then either ask for a raise (if she enjoys it and is doing well) or start looking for something on more money. You never know, if another job does come along, this company may match what they offer for her to stay.
As many of the above, I would say go for it 1 yrs experience in industry is worth a lot, an the opportunities whilst being emplyed by a big company could be many.
Imagine how much funding a year's training in this line of business would be (or cost of doing a PHD for example) would be and compare that to being actually being paid £17k, with all the formaiol training, on-the-job coaching and experience she will receive. This does seem pretty good value for a first real job even if it seems a bit low.
Of course, no harm in asking for a bit more, especially if they seem very keen.
Imagine how much funding a year's training in this line of business would be (or cost of doing a PHD for example) would be and compare that to being actually being paid £17k, with all the formaiol training, on-the-job coaching and experience she will receive. This does seem pretty good value for a first real job even if it seems a bit low.
Of course, no harm in asking for a bit more, especially if they seem very keen.
Agreed the money is awful, especially for a Phd but thats how it goes. Being overqualified is an unfortunate situation but you can see why someone hiring for a £17k job wants someone who wants that job not someone telling them what to do, overtaking them. Here it seems like they want someone looking to develop in the role/dept and so she'll hopefully do just that and be rewarded well.
I also think that outside of very specific roles, employers shy away of simply hiring academic qualifications. These days, experience is key in almost every industry - there are thousands out there - fully qualified and some with years of experience in other roles interning for months on end for no pay to get into new industries - media particularly.
I'd compare it to those or the many city internships that pay this for decent but not top candidates as a way of getting in to the industry and getting the all important experience. At the end of the year she hopefully gets a great role with them or perhaps she may even be highly desirable to other firms as someone with experience who also has a Phd.
I also think that outside of very specific roles, employers shy away of simply hiring academic qualifications. These days, experience is key in almost every industry - there are thousands out there - fully qualified and some with years of experience in other roles interning for months on end for no pay to get into new industries - media particularly.
I'd compare it to those or the many city internships that pay this for decent but not top candidates as a way of getting in to the industry and getting the all important experience. At the end of the year she hopefully gets a great role with them or perhaps she may even be highly desirable to other firms as someone with experience who also has a Phd.
As all the posts have mentioned, it's a no brainer really. Take the job, work hard and make a good impression. The experience alone on the cv will help no end.
From my personal experience, getting into the health & safety field is very difficult with a huge amount of applicants so this opportunity can only be a good thing.
From my personal experience, getting into the health & safety field is very difficult with a huge amount of applicants so this opportunity can only be a good thing.
schmalex said:
OP. I strongly suggest that she asks for more money (even if it's a few £K more, it'll have been worth it and it's much easier to ask for more when negotiating the offer than when in the job) before accepting the offer.
I would be vary wary of asking for more money on your first job.Yes you dont get if you dont ask.
However this is not the situation to do this, as she is not in a job currently and if they call her bluff they might decided she is not worth the hassle, as there will be another 10-20 people that they probably have lined up if their cheeky £17k isnt taken up.
Unless you can come out of the bluff all smelling of roses, I would never do it.
Du1point8 said:
schmalex said:
OP. I strongly suggest that she asks for more money (even if it's a few £K more, it'll have been worth it and it's much easier to ask for more when negotiating the offer than when in the job) before accepting the offer.
I would be vary wary of asking for more money on your first job.Yes you dont get if you dont ask.
However this is not the situation to do this, as she is not in a job currently and if they call her bluff they might decided she is not worth the hassle, as there will be another 10-20 people that they probably have lined up if their cheeky £17k isnt taken up.
Unless you can come out of the bluff all smelling of roses, I would never do it.
schmalex said:
Du1point8 said:
schmalex said:
OP. I strongly suggest that she asks for more money (even if it's a few £K more, it'll have been worth it and it's much easier to ask for more when negotiating the offer than when in the job) before accepting the offer.
I would be vary wary of asking for more money on your first job.Yes you dont get if you dont ask.
However this is not the situation to do this, as she is not in a job currently and if they call her bluff they might decided she is not worth the hassle, as there will be another 10-20 people that they probably have lined up if their cheeky £17k isnt taken up.
Unless you can come out of the bluff all smelling of roses, I would never do it.
I think there are certain situations where its worth negotiating on money and some where there aren't. Firstly, if you are going to negotiate its better to be in some sort of position of strength or where they'll see you asking as a strength. Otherwise, much better to wait until a natural point down the line in which to negotiate. If it was me, considering what the salary is I'd still probabky have asked if theres room for negotiation. However most importantly, come the end of the year when there may be negotiations for a new role, I'd want to ensure that any salary was on a completely different scale. Not 10 or 20 % but more like 50 - 60%+.
already accepted the job so I would think going to negotiate now would be a bit silly. They said they had 2-3 others to interview and that was on friday afternoon so we didn't expect to hear back until mid/late this week. They phoned on monday morning to offer the job and she just bit their hand off there and then. Either the other candidates didn't exist, didn't turn up or they're so sure of choosing my gf that they binned them off!
I think it'll be ok to leave the salary where it is and see what happens in a year. If all goes well and they offer a full time post, she may be able to jump up significantly. I think its going to worth it in the long run. Again thanks for the input all.
I think it'll be ok to leave the salary where it is and see what happens in a year. If all goes well and they offer a full time post, she may be able to jump up significantly. I think its going to worth it in the long run. Again thanks for the input all.
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