no legal representation allowed at disciplinary hearing

[vanordinaire]

I'm dealing with something at work at the moment which my HR manager informed me today may result in disciplinary action against me. I replied that if they went down that route, I wanted to have legal representation at any meeting. She replied that I could have a union rep or a work colleague present but our company has a policy of not engaging with lawyers in disciplinary matters and that they simply wouldn't be allowed to attend. Can they do this or can I refuse to engage with them without the representation I want? I'm not in a union and I feel any colleague who I asked to support me would be put in an awkward position..

[HenryJM]

She is absolutely correct, the only entitlement is union rep or colleague.

[dingg]

Sorry to hijack , but does that go for both ways?

ie I was involved in some grievance meetings and my company brought along a lawyer to one of the meetings .

(all resolved and in the past but interested to know if that was acceptable)

[HenryJM]

The employer can have anyone there.

[TurricanII]

I am not a personnel guru or lawyer but would take a tablet computer or smartphone in, set it along side a notepad and would record the whole meeting. Then I would play it back asap after the meeting and transcribe the notes/salient points in detail. I would not ask them about recording in case they forbid it, but I would announce at the outset that notes will be taken.

[voicey]

If you have a friendly lawyer you can kind of get around this problem. You should have the right to pause the meeting at anytime and seek advice. In one meeting, I stopped the meeting after every question and went outside to speak to my lawyer for advice. I then went back in and answered the question.

After about 5 or 6 times it got tedious and they let my lawyer into the room.

[HenryJM]

That isn't a right, there is no right for the solicitor to be on the premises and no right for you to leave the premises for such a discussion, particularly not after ever question.

[hidetheelephants]

HenryJM said:

That isn't a right, there is no right for the solicitor to be on the premises and no right for you to leave the premises for such a discussion, particularly not after ever question.

Who says the lawyer is on the premises? Telephones have existed for some time now.

[HenryJM]

hidetheelephants said:

HenryJM said:

That isn't a right, there is no right for the solicitor to be on the premises and no right for you to leave the premises for such a discussion, particularly not after ever question.

Who says the lawyer is on the premises? Telephones have existed for some time now.

There is no right to keep taking breaks to call anyone.

[davepoth]

HenryJM said:

hidetheelephants said:

HenryJM said:

That isn't a right, there is no right for the solicitor to be on the premises and no right for you to leave the premises for such a discussion, particularly not after ever question.

Who says the lawyer is on the premises? Telephones have existed for some time now.

There is no right to keep taking breaks to call anyone.

But there's nothing that says you can't in the ACAS rules. So it's up to the various parties to agree.

[C.A.R.]

I thought a disciplinary had to be put into writing regardless of what discussion is had?

[hidetheelephants]

HenryJM said:

There is no right to keep taking breaks to call anyone.

They have the right to imprison employees? Wow, I must have missed that meeting.

[HenryJM]

hidetheelephants said:

HenryJM said:

There is no right to keep taking breaks to call anyone.

They have the right to imprison employees? Wow, I must have missed that meeting.

Oh dear, how sad.

You clearly have no experience, the OP wants some sensible help, you are not providing it.

The only assistance in a disciplinary is a colleague or union rep. If you don't believe that go and look it up.

There is no provision that would allow you to get an employer to allow you to go in and out of a meeting to get legal help, most employers would not allow it. Be aware that such a meeting is not a legal process, it can largely be done however the employer wants it to be done, the only recourse being if the outcome for this or a later process is dismissal or the employee takes it as constructive dismissal and through either takes it to tribunal.

Only then does the legal system kick in and the way the disciplinary was conducted becomes questioned in the larger context of the dismissal.

[vanordinaire]

HenryJM said:

hidetheelephants said:

HenryJM said:

the OP wants some sensible help, you are not providing it.

The only assistance in a disciplinary is a colleague or union rep. If you don't believe that go and look it up.

There is no provision that would allow you to get an employer to allow you to go in and out of a meeting to get legal help, most employers would not allow it. Be aware that such a meeting is not a legal process, it can largely be done however the employer wants it to be done, the only recourse being if the outcome for this or a later process is dismissal or the employee takes it as constructive dismissal and through either takes it to tribunal.

Only then does the legal system kick in and the way the disciplinary was conducted becomes questioned in the larger context of the dismissal.

Thanks for the advice, things seem to be going my way at work and hopefully I won't need it now.