Where do all these pilots come from?

[NormalWisdom]

tfin said:

People don't become pilots for the money.

E.g. Bruce Dickinson

[croyde]

And John Travolta.

[anonymous-user]

hedgefinder said:

I know a couple f commerical pilots, and they do very well financially, so I have no idea where the "pilots dont become pilots for the money" bks comes from.
Newly qualified and trainee positions may pay less, but its exactly the same in any industry.

Plus in my lot many are flying c500 hours a year and still have final salary pensions. I can't think of many jobs that have a better work/life balance. All the people seem to quote starting salaries with ryan air for some reason, it's like saying some junior doctor earns x so being a GP who owns a practice is not well paid.

I'm not sure there are many other industries where people would be willing to spend so much money to qualify for, with no guarantee whatsoever of a job.

To answer the OPs question though. Many pilots out there had their training paid for by the military or the airline, most of the ones who qualified in the last 15 years or so probably took a loan out (or got the money from their parents) and paid for it themselves.

[soad]

croyde said:

And John Travolta.

[Thankyou4calling]

Pilots don't do it for the money! Yeah right.

Try telling that to Roger on the flight deck of the BA 747. He will be troys earring well over 100k per annum, get perks the likes of us can only dream of, will work less than what I'd regard as a full week and be staying in top hotels at BAs expense when on stopovers.

I agree they don't only do it for the money, it's the whole package and don't ignore the glamour either.

[Madness60]

Buzz Lightyear said:

My cousin is in the RAF, and plans to just get trained, then leave and join a commercial airline.

My next door neighbour is also a pilot and he did the same.

Buzz, as someone who did train new pilots best he keeps that quiet!! He may not have mentioned that it does take a while to get trained and qualified (couple of years) before you can just leave....oh and a 6 year return of service on completion not start of training before you can get out!

[BGARK]

Slightly OT but why do people want to become commercial airline pilots, after the novelty wears off it must be one of the most boring jobs in the world!

[croyde]

BGARK said:

Slightly OT but why do people want to become commercial airline pilots, after the novelty wears off it must be one of the most boring jobs in the world!

I also think this as well.

They must be desperate for a bit of bad weather or one engine going just so that they can put their expertise in action. The delays and crowded skies as well as long haul flights must be mind numbing (happy to be proved wrong btw).

Those chaps flying in Indonesia for Susi Air do some real flying and appear to love their jobs. Most want to come back to Europe and fly the big jets but I can't understand why.

Mind you most of them are young and I suppose the security and safety of working for a big airline becomes a draw as you get older.

[soad]

BGARK said:

Slightly OT but why do people want to become commercial airline pilots, after the novelty wears off it must be one of the most boring jobs in the world!

Cute stewardesses check themselves into the same hotel overnight, don't they...

[boobles]

Pilots do earn good money & wether they work for EasyJet or BA doesn't make them any less qualified.

Sometimes it's easier working for these low cost airlines & short haul flights.

[croyde]

To be honest, are not cute stewardesses a myth. I have never seen one. They all seem to be battle hardened ladies of a certain age and dealing with a lot of the idiots who fly these days, who can blame them.

Don't get me wrong as I like a lot of the girls that have served and helped me on flights over the years but I don't remember many cute ones.

[Moose.]

To answer the original question...

You're missing the main reason anyone gets into flying and that is we love it! Ask any pilot why they started and it won't be because they were looking to earn lots of money; it's a passion and if it requires spending every penny you have, it's a sacrifice you have to make.

I did just that back in 2006; spent EVERYTHING I had and even borrowed a little from the parents in order to fund the commercial license. And with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. All because I love to fly. I know many pilots who have gone down the same path and lots didn't ever get a job flying but still continue to do it as a hobby.

I got lucky and have ended up flying an aircraft in a part of the world many pilots dream of doing. However, it's a life of compromises and whilst the flying I get to do is about the best this world has to offer, I've had to forgo plenty of other things to keep the dream alive. That TV series touched on a few things but obviously focused on all the awesome stuff (which is pretty awesome I have to admit!)

[croyde]

Thanks Moose.

May I ask a brief synopsis of what it took you to go from a non flyer to a CPL. Did the CPL that you eventually gained only allow you to fly a certain type of aircraft for example.

I'm sure you are busy but it certainly would make interesting reading.

I presume it's night over there so I'll wish you a good evening

[ChasW]

My understanding is that a senior pilot with a major commercial airline on an old contract should be very well paid. Those that succeed them, on newer T's & C's, are likely to be less well rewarded.

[creampuff]

croyde said:

Did the CPL that you eventually gained only allow you to fly a certain type of aircraft for example.

CPL on its own is useless. A CPL is really only a PPL to a higher standard which also allows you to legally earn an income from flying. A CPL without anything else will still only allow you to fly in daylight in visual met conditions (ie you fly and navigate by looking out the window).

To be employable you also need:
- instrument rating
- endorsements, such as multi engine

To be employable by an airline you also need an ATPL which is another whole world of training and difficulty over a CPL and instrument rating

(private flyer who does it for fun speaking here; I often thought if I didn't have my current job a airline pilot would be my ideal job. Although if you are watching "Worst Place to be a Pilot" about single engine flying into mountainous grass strips in West Papua, that looks pretty good too )

Edited by creampuff on Thursday 11th September 16:33

[Hainey]

ChasW said:

My understanding is that a senior pilot with a major commercial airline on an old contract should be very well paid. Those that succeed them, on newer T's & C's, are likely to be less well rewarded.

Paypoint 12 for example (not me, but my current skipper was before he jumped to bizjets) is a nice place to be. However, as time passes, those contacts will be unlikely to be replicated for the current crop of FOs sadly.

All industries seem to be heading that way though. I know an architect whom admits he is unlikely to earn what his father, a recently retired architect, managed to earn.

The past comment about if money is important, be successful in business and fly for fun is a very valid one. As is the one about some guys getting qualified and not getting a job, but continuing to fly. I know several frozen ATPLs whom have never been paid to sit on a flight deck, as family commitments meant they couldn't give up the old profession they have to take a monster pay cut and live abroad as an FO, but they are still excellent and capable pilots.

In fact, with a 1000 hours non autopilot time as many of them have, some would argue they are better skilled at actually flying (if not systems management) than some chap banging in lnav at 400ft 4 times a day, as perhaps backed up by the Air France crash where failure to fly the aircraft under limited panel was a factor in the tragedy. Thats a whole other discussion for sharper minds than mine, however.

All I'll say is if anyone fancies it go get some hours in, meet people, make friends, see where it takes you. We only pass this way once, after all. Good luck, and be prepared to buy plenty of coffees on the journey

[Lost soul]

croyde said:

To be honest, are not cute stewardesses a myth. I have never seen one. They all seem to be battle hardened ladies of a certain age and dealing with a lot of the idiots who fly these days, who can blame them.

Don't get me wrong as I like a lot of the girls that have served and helped me on flights over the years but I don't remember many cute ones.

Well said

[98elise]

Thankyou4calling said:

Pilots don't do it for the money! Yeah right.

Try telling that to Roger on the flight deck of the BA 747. He will be troys earring well over 100k per annum, get perks the likes of us can only dream of, will work less than what I'd regard as a full week and be staying in top hotels at BAs expense when on stopovers.

I agree they don't only do it for the money, it's the whole package and don't ignore the glamour either.

Much like flying in a plane, the novelty of staying in a hotel wears off pretty quickly. I'm working away from home a lot at the moment and my employer puts me up in decent hotels and everything is expensed.

I've been doing it two years now and I hate it. Who the hell wants to live in one room with just the stuff thay can pack into a suitcase? Even eating out becomes a pain in the arse.

The only perks I can see are cheap flights.

[rambo19]

Thankyou4calling said:

Pilots don't do it for the money! Yeah right.

Try telling that to Roger on the flight deck of the BA 747. He will be troys earring well over 100k per annum, get perks the likes of us can only dream of, will work less than what I'd regard as a full week and be staying in top hotels at BAs expense when on stopovers.

I agree they don't only do it for the money, it's the whole package and don't ignore the glamour either.

You don't know any pilots, do you?

My best mate is a captain now, and does not earn that much, and the job of flying he enjoys, its all the cobblers that goes with it that he hates.

[Moose.]

croyde said:

Thanks Moose.

May I ask a brief synopsis of what it took you to go from a non flyer to a CPL. Did the CPL that you eventually gained only allow you to fly a certain type of aircraft for example.

I'm sure you are busy but it certainly would make interesting reading.

I presume it's night over there so I'll wish you a good evening

Cheers!

I've actually got a brief summary of how I got to where I am now on my blog here: http://indopilot.blogspot.co.uk/p/about-me.html

If you've got anything specific, feel free to ask here or PM me