Problem at work

[Disastrous]

To all the men pretending that they don't prefer it if women pretty themselves up: you realise this is the internet and you won't get a row from the wife for admitting it?

Men and women objectify each other. We're all animals and trying to pretend we don't instantly rate each other's attractiveness and prefer our colleagues to look attractive is just bks. I appreciate the uglies need to be appeased and thus we can't have policy saying so, but please drop the faux-outrage! Nobody believes it!

Same for women, by the way (I'm no sexist!). They love a bit of eye candy round an office just as much as we do. The OP's only mistake was vocalising what everyone thinks.


Best of luck!

[anonymous-user]

Your mistake is to link attractiveness to a work rule. People are perfectly entitled to notice one another, (but shouldn't trespass into unwanted conduct, and leering and letching can be that). Requiring women (and women alone) to dress by reference to what men find attractive is dinosaurish.

[schmunk]

southendpier said:

I understand he isn't even the Manager; so finger points at the Manager - no?

in the very first post of this thread CAH706 said:

As background, I work for a large company (for 20 years) and manage a small (sub 30) team of roughly 70/30 women to men.

[southendpier]

indeed, we all like a bit of crumpet.

[schmunk]

so it be on to double post

[Du1point8]

Breadvan72 said:

Your mistake is to link attractiveness to a work rule. People are perfectly entitled to notice one another, (but shouldn't trespass into unwanted conduct, and leering and letching can be that). Requiring women (and women alone) to dress by reference to what men find attractive is dinosaurish.

Correct... the way the OP should have phrased it would be to set the rules as smart business attire and banned summer dresses, sandals and flip flops as not being professional.

Then he would have got what he wanted, any female complaining about why they can't have a summer dress on in summer can simply be told its not professional for OP to turn up in shorts and t-shirt at work instead of a suit, therefore summer dress is not allowed as its not professional enough in a business environment.

OP made the mistake of being dinosaurish and stating women must wear heels and skirts... big mistake in todays offices.

[zedstar]

Du1point8 said:

How long has the unofficial dress code been in place?

Wish we could do that at our place, too many women have decided that during the summer months, business attire that befits a financial institute now includes:

Summer dresses
tight jeggins or what ever those skin tight trousers are
sandels
flip flops

Its a disgrace that they can do that when blokes are always in suit and shirt, with smart shoes.

It is indeed, many years ago one of my friends who worked in the hopsital was 'commented' on by a higher up female for not wearing a tie to work, though he always a smart shirt, suit and smart shoes. He took a picture of 3 of his female co workers working in the same room as him, doing the same job - they all had loose blouses on, smart casual leggings/trousers and 2 were wearing flip flops. This is equality.

[southendpier]

schmunk said:

southendpier said:

I understand he isn't even the Manager; so finger points at the Manager - no?

in the very first post of this thread CAH706 said:

As background, I work for a large company (for 20 years) and manage a small (sub 30) team of roughly 70/30 women to men.

WELL DONE BUT KEEP READING then CAH706 said said:

My manager has asked me to help with some work on the quiet. I am doing but suspect I shouldn't

[schmunk]

zedstar said:

It is indeed, many years ago one of my friends who worked in the hopsital was 'commented' on by a higher up female for not wearing a tie to work, though he always a smart shirt, suit and smart shoes. He took a picture of 3 of his female co workers working in the same room as him, doing the same job - they all had loose blouses on, smart casual leggings/trousers and 2 were wearing flip flops. This is equality.

Ironically, ties are now frowned upon / "banned" in hospitals, even for administrative staff, due to infection control concerns.

[CAH706]

I am the manager of a team of 30. I have a manger who I report into. He has never had an issue with it but wouldn't look that closely at how it came about. The blame is mine.

The dress code is for men and women though not the same.... Suits and ties for men and skirts for women. I say short skirts but I mean not long (the floor trailing ones)

The code was discussed and agreed by my team at the time. This is different now with c 10 people changing since it came in.

The code I implemented was based on a staff members suggestion initially.

I know I'm in the wrong but bar for one colleague who has apologised again now via voicemail (it's not her fault) the team environment works for the team and we constantly get loads wanting to join. I get no leavers other than upward promotion.

I can see why I'm copping flack. I guess I deserve that but if I end up out of work and on the street the warm glow of satisfaction from the PH crew will not keep my 9 year old warm.

Thanks to everyone who have posted and for those with constructive advice.

Please don't take the above as me shirking my position in this. I know it's of my making but you do need to see this in the full context.

Ps colleague has again advised HR in the 1-1 that they are making too much out of this. Fingers crossed that helps a little.

[anonymous-user]

Unless you can see why what you did was objectionable, you may get a tough time. A genuine change in attitude could save your job.

[anonymous-user]

CAH706 said:

I am the manager of a team of 30. I have a manger who I report into. He has never had an issue with it but wouldn't look that closely at how it came about. The blame is mine.

The dress code is for men and women though not the same.... Suits and ties for men and skirts for women. I say short skirts but I mean not long (the floor trailing ones)

The code was discussed and agreed by my team at the time. This is different now with c 10 people changing since it came in.

The code I implemented was based on a staff members suggestion initially.

I know I'm in the wrong but bar for one colleague who has apologised again now via voicemail (it's not her fault) the team environment works for the team and we constantly get loads wanting to join. I get no leavers other than upward promotion.

I can see why I'm copping flack. I guess I deserve that but if I end up out of work and on the street the warm glow of satisfaction from the PH crew will not keep my 9 year old warm.

Thanks to everyone who have posted and for those with constructive advice.

Please don't take the above as me shirking my position in this. I know it's of my making but you do need to see this in the full context.

Ps colleague has again advised HR in the 1-1 that they are making too much out of this. Fingers crossed that helps a little.

Read your first post and then this one. They seem worlds apart and it's your first post, understandably, that caused the flak.

[anonymous-user]

Even his later posts still drop him in it. No trousers for women? No flat shoes? Rules redolent of dinosaurism.

[anonymous-user]

Also, the OP is back pedalling. Look what he said at the outset, with bold text added:-

CAH706 said:

...

Given the attractiveness I asked the ladies to wear skirts etc to brighten up the office

...

The complainant the OP describes as a "pig dog". Why is anyone defending this creep?

[Du1point8]

Breadvan72 said:

Even his later posts still drop him in it. No trousers for women? No flat shoes? Rules redolent of dinosaurism.

Yep... OP if ever given the chance again should decide what is not professional dress, rather than advise on what people should be wearing.

Hopefully the OP has learned, but still seems to be typing in that way, If he goes to HR it should be rephrased as.

We discussed in the team meeting what was classed as professional dress, the team then decided on blah, blah , blah...

Not that OP decided that women should wear skirts and heels as it comes across again and again.

[anonymous-user]

Breadvan72 said:

Also, the OP is back pedalling. Look what he said at the outset, with bold text added:-

CAH706 said:

...

Given the attractiveness I asked the ladies to wear skirts etc to brighten up the office

...

The complainant the OP describes as a "pig dog". Why is anyone defending this creep?

Your bold is why I still wonder if it's a wind-up! Can anyone decent seriously have such an attitude?

[DSLiverpool]

I have designed this to appeal to all the lookers and "pig dogs" in your office alike

[CAH706]

I'll stop posting now but will update next week once I get the outcome. I hate it when there is no end to a thread.

My initial posts were written in a slightly drunken state and also at a time when I felt angry at what I sensed was a betrayal of friendship from someone.

I was also trying to make light of what I knew was a pretty serious situation as a coping mechanism.

In the cold light of day not great.

Anyway judge me on my latter posts

Thanks all

[anonymous-user]

In vino veritas. Anyway, OP, maybe one day you will make it as far as, say, the late nineteenth century in your attitudes to women.

[DSLiverpool]

CAH706 said:

I'll stop posting now but will update next week once I get the outcome. I hate it when there is no end to a thread.

My initial posts were written in a slightly drunken state and also at a time when I felt angry at what I sensed was a betrayal of friendship from someone.

I was also trying to make light of what I knew was a pretty serious situation as a coping mechanism.

In the cold light of day not great.

Anyway judge me on my latter posts

Thanks all

I know where you are coming from and I can see you care and are a good manager but there is a line between staff and boss that can be forgotten when all is good and banter is flowing however the staff never forget you are the boss and whilst you think its a matey agreement they might not. Remember the line!!