Problem at work
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
"Business dress" for western men can be understood as suit and tie. "Business dress" for women is not limited to skirts and heels.
I'm not sure business dress for men is limited to suit and tie either though.Seems like a minefield to me. Perhaps dress codes are best avoided altogether, and employees for that matter.
A company I worked for (less than 2 years ago) amended the (already strict) "appearance policy" to specifically state men must have short hair.
The company is run by guy in his 70s - his outfit, his rules, but I am extremely fortunate to have escaped. I have never believed that a requirement to be dressed up like a spiv with a neck rag on was an essential pre-requisite to hard work or quality work. To the OP and his ilk, I say good luck to you, I'm just really pleased that not all workplaces are stuck in the 1950s.
The company is run by guy in his 70s - his outfit, his rules, but I am extremely fortunate to have escaped. I have never believed that a requirement to be dressed up like a spiv with a neck rag on was an essential pre-requisite to hard work or quality work. To the OP and his ilk, I say good luck to you, I'm just really pleased that not all workplaces are stuck in the 1950s.
0000 said:
I'm not sure business dress for men is limited to suit and tie either though.
This is a major part of the problem, but over the recent years is becoming less of one.I hate jackets, even a well tailored one is restrictive to me. I have always worn a tie, but in recent months have really enjoyed ditching mine other than for the odd 'it's expected of me' meeting. Actually I feel and think I look better dressed these days than 18 months ago when I would not have dreamed of removing my tie before the doors close.
So long as things keep going in this direction (if it looks smart to your peers and clients then it is fine, if it does not you need to change) then all will be well. If we allow things to go back to suit and tie for the men, whatever they fancy for women short of swimwear, then I can see more people flucking up in the same way as the OP.
I do like the idea of a 'what not to wear' list, but it must not differentiate between men and women. Neither should be allowed to wear jeggins in the office and both must not wear skirts higher than 2" above the knee or lower than 1" above the floor
Heals should be down to the discretion of the employee but overly high heals should be avoided as these may present difficulties when dealing with trip hazards and in case of an emergency. V8forweekends said:
A company I worked for (less than 2 years ago) amended the (already strict) "appearance policy" to specifically state men must have short hair.
The length of my hair was mentioned a few times politely to me and a couple not so politely. I got it trimmed and then out billed almost everyone else for a few years.
The length of my now quite long hair has not come up in conversation for quite a long time...
BGARK said:
The OP is imposing a rule that they jointly agreed to (did you skip that bit), its only the fat munter that is causing the issues. Not clear why the minority always seem to win the arguments about stuff like this.
There's only one person complaining in gang rape as well doesn't make it right.Just remembered this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-22828150
Swedish train drivers wear skirts as they are banned from wearing shorts
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-22828150
Swedish train drivers wear skirts as they are banned from wearing shorts
OP, if it helps you I am a manager and could potentially have to deal with situations that you have found yourself in. Going from your OP you would be out of there as quick as possible and we would be doing everything to cover the company's arse (not including wearing of long or short skirts)
But, from your subsequent posts it appears that you simply do not appreciate the mistakes that you have made. If employee A is willing to work in your group then I would consider reinstating you having had some training on corporate policy and sexual harassment. (This is sexual harassment). This would allow me to be covered if any questions were raised in the future because we would have taken action to resolve the issue. However, even in this out come I would recommend that you find a new job.
But, from your subsequent posts it appears that you simply do not appreciate the mistakes that you have made. If employee A is willing to work in your group then I would consider reinstating you having had some training on corporate policy and sexual harassment. (This is sexual harassment). This would allow me to be covered if any questions were raised in the future because we would have taken action to resolve the issue. However, even in this out come I would recommend that you find a new job.
OP, you're not David Brent are you?
Even your later posts could be taken straight from an episode if The Office, where Brent finds himself in hot water due to his overwhelming desire to be 'one of the lads'.
I really can't believe that you think it's acceptable to come up with a departmental dress code, outside of official policy, which you then impose on your team without any thought for the fact that some people might be deeply uncomfortable with it.
You say that the team are happy with the policy and no one objected but do you honestly think that someone with body image issues would stand up and say they don't like it as they feel they will look terrible?
You're supposed to be a professional manager, not the leader of a playground gang.
Even your later posts could be taken straight from an episode if The Office, where Brent finds himself in hot water due to his overwhelming desire to be 'one of the lads'.
I really can't believe that you think it's acceptable to come up with a departmental dress code, outside of official policy, which you then impose on your team without any thought for the fact that some people might be deeply uncomfortable with it.
You say that the team are happy with the policy and no one objected but do you honestly think that someone with body image issues would stand up and say they don't like it as they feel they will look terrible?
You're supposed to be a professional manager, not the leader of a playground gang.
hidetheelephants said:
schmunk said:
Rude-boy said:
Neither should be allowed to wear jeggins in the office
Now hold on there, that's a step too far.Judge Cocklecarrot said:
What in the wide world of sports is a jeggins?
h0b0 said:
BGARK said:
The OP is imposing a rule that they jointly agreed to (did you skip that bit), its only the fat munter that is causing the issues. Not clear why the minority always seem to win the arguments about stuff like this.
There's only one person complaining in gang rape as well doesn't make it right.
So final update to this. Quicker than I thought but a relief really.
Following HR discussions with the team and myself they have given me a formal warning and some training requirements.
Additional background that has come out over the last few hours.
Colleague A did not directly complain about the dress code. She asked HR for a view on what the company code was and during discussion on the formal work code they expressed their concern and took proceedings from there.
Colleague A at the time and during discussions with HR said she wasn't unduly concerned by the code but had wanted to talk to me with an understanding of the company code. I will need to speak to her as obviously she is not happy over this. Obviously my code will go and the team can revert to the company code.
Colleague A has saved my job which I suspect a decent majority on here feel I should have lost.
One thing I don't think I mentioned previously. I'm in the process of setting up a new team and Colleague A applied for a role (sideways move) with me so it is probably reasonable to think she is generally happy with how I manage a team?
I'm not going to defend the dress code thing but I'm still in the camp that we are a high performing team because of how we operate on a number of fronts.
Couple of points to finish
Firstly my comments in the first post were not acceptable and embarrassing/disrespectful
Secondly thanks to all who have provided input
Following HR discussions with the team and myself they have given me a formal warning and some training requirements.
Additional background that has come out over the last few hours.
Colleague A did not directly complain about the dress code. She asked HR for a view on what the company code was and during discussion on the formal work code they expressed their concern and took proceedings from there.
Colleague A at the time and during discussions with HR said she wasn't unduly concerned by the code but had wanted to talk to me with an understanding of the company code. I will need to speak to her as obviously she is not happy over this. Obviously my code will go and the team can revert to the company code.
Colleague A has saved my job which I suspect a decent majority on here feel I should have lost.
One thing I don't think I mentioned previously. I'm in the process of setting up a new team and Colleague A applied for a role (sideways move) with me so it is probably reasonable to think she is generally happy with how I manage a team?
I'm not going to defend the dress code thing but I'm still in the camp that we are a high performing team because of how we operate on a number of fronts.
Couple of points to finish
Firstly my comments in the first post were not acceptable and embarrassing/disrespectful
Secondly thanks to all who have provided input
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