New job or wait for pay review - how to approach?
Discussion
Education, if it matters, but I imagine most people on here are hugely more experienced than me with this sort of thing, so I would very much appreciate some advice. 
First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not a Money Grabbing Bar Steward. At all. If I was, I wouldn't be in teaching. However, everyone likes to be well remunerated for their achievements. I'm in my 7th year of teaching now and I've got my pay review in the next few weeks. Historically in teaching you've just been bumped up the scale no matter what (providing you weren't basically being incompetent/in a capability procedure), including going between the main and upper pay scales, the progress between is roughly about £3k, I think. This is the point I'm at.
I'm not under any procedure, obviously. Far from it. I took over an English department with dire results in January, did the jobs of 2/3 people whilst others went off on fake sickness breaks/milked the school for pay-off settlements, and managed to get C+ results up 27%, whilst also doubling the 3 levels progress figure and increasing the 4 levels progress figure 7-fold. I've heard of the English results for a large number of the 17 schools in the area for this summer and only heard of 2 that were higher. This will be critical in ensuring the school (probably) comes out of its category soon. Obviously, I've done lots of other work too - created a new team, overhauled courses, curricula and made the department fit for purpose. It's been hard work.
Now, schools (academies, particularly) can pay you whatever they deem apt for the job you're doing. I've mentioned a couple of times to the head in the last few weeks about the department's performance (which he described to the rest of the school as "stunning" on our first training day) and whether it would be enough to qualify me jumping up more than the 3k I could expect for performing adequately. He's been very cagey about this, saying "we'll look at it" and other similar things, despite in my interview in October last year saying, when I questioned the pay package and future progress, that "if you come in and show us you're pulling up trees we'll look at it".
It's left me wondering whether I might only get the expected increase - the same increase a 7th year teacher who performed adequately as a main scale teacher in a non-core subject could expect. If I did I would, naturally, be a little disappointed, considering all the hard work I've put in and the enormous boost I've given to the school's headline performance figure.
By chance, a friend who's recently moved to another school says they are looking to recruit a Director of English (essentially, a HoD position but on the lower end of management pay and works more directly with SLT) due to poor results this summer and she says they want someone to complete overhaul the department - a job I know I can do, as I've just done it in a school in much more challenging circumstances. The pay range here is advertised as 48-52k and she says they would not necessarily start the successful candidate at the bottom of this if they could justify otherwise. For reference, my current salary is 41k without the upcoming expected 3k rise.
However, the advertising school's deadline is in a couple of weeks - before my review. Which leaves me wondering what to do
Do I mention to my current school I'm thinking of applying before the review?
Do I not apply, miss the deadline, and wait for my review? And if so, make a move from there? (Obviously, unless they don't appoint on this advertised job then I will have missed that one and will need to wait for something else appropriate, which could be up to 12 months away.)
Do I apply anyway and see if my school come up with a retention offer?
Other contextual information: I've not yet applied for the advertised job, my girlfriend is going part-time at her current job to go to university to do teacher training so as big an increase in my income as possible is preferred so as to cover that shortfall, my current school is unaware of me considering applying (though I am open to mentioning it - I've tried to approach the issue of pay with the head, after all) and I'm an examiner for the board which the new school follow, meaning I could use that experience to good effect.
Thanks for making it this far and trying to help!
First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not a Money Grabbing Bar Steward. At all. If I was, I wouldn't be in teaching. However, everyone likes to be well remunerated for their achievements. I'm in my 7th year of teaching now and I've got my pay review in the next few weeks. Historically in teaching you've just been bumped up the scale no matter what (providing you weren't basically being incompetent/in a capability procedure), including going between the main and upper pay scales, the progress between is roughly about £3k, I think. This is the point I'm at.
I'm not under any procedure, obviously. Far from it. I took over an English department with dire results in January, did the jobs of 2/3 people whilst others went off on fake sickness breaks/milked the school for pay-off settlements, and managed to get C+ results up 27%, whilst also doubling the 3 levels progress figure and increasing the 4 levels progress figure 7-fold. I've heard of the English results for a large number of the 17 schools in the area for this summer and only heard of 2 that were higher. This will be critical in ensuring the school (probably) comes out of its category soon. Obviously, I've done lots of other work too - created a new team, overhauled courses, curricula and made the department fit for purpose. It's been hard work.
Now, schools (academies, particularly) can pay you whatever they deem apt for the job you're doing. I've mentioned a couple of times to the head in the last few weeks about the department's performance (which he described to the rest of the school as "stunning" on our first training day) and whether it would be enough to qualify me jumping up more than the 3k I could expect for performing adequately. He's been very cagey about this, saying "we'll look at it" and other similar things, despite in my interview in October last year saying, when I questioned the pay package and future progress, that "if you come in and show us you're pulling up trees we'll look at it".
It's left me wondering whether I might only get the expected increase - the same increase a 7th year teacher who performed adequately as a main scale teacher in a non-core subject could expect. If I did I would, naturally, be a little disappointed, considering all the hard work I've put in and the enormous boost I've given to the school's headline performance figure.
By chance, a friend who's recently moved to another school says they are looking to recruit a Director of English (essentially, a HoD position but on the lower end of management pay and works more directly with SLT) due to poor results this summer and she says they want someone to complete overhaul the department - a job I know I can do, as I've just done it in a school in much more challenging circumstances. The pay range here is advertised as 48-52k and she says they would not necessarily start the successful candidate at the bottom of this if they could justify otherwise. For reference, my current salary is 41k without the upcoming expected 3k rise.
However, the advertising school's deadline is in a couple of weeks - before my review. Which leaves me wondering what to do
Do I mention to my current school I'm thinking of applying before the review?
Do I not apply, miss the deadline, and wait for my review? And if so, make a move from there? (Obviously, unless they don't appoint on this advertised job then I will have missed that one and will need to wait for something else appropriate, which could be up to 12 months away.)
Do I apply anyway and see if my school come up with a retention offer?
Other contextual information: I've not yet applied for the advertised job, my girlfriend is going part-time at her current job to go to university to do teacher training so as big an increase in my income as possible is preferred so as to cover that shortfall, my current school is unaware of me considering applying (though I am open to mentioning it - I've tried to approach the issue of pay with the head, after all) and I'm an examiner for the board which the new school follow, meaning I could use that experience to good effect.
Thanks for making it this far and trying to help!
Do you want to stay on 44, in an environment that you like, or go to 48+ on an unknown environment ?
I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
The environment I work in is OK - earlier this year it was hell. It's certainly no cake walk even now. The kids at the new school are much better in terms of behaviour, according to my friend who recently started working there. I might have chance to visit the advertising school this week and talk to the head informally during an open evening.
conanius said:
Do you want to stay on 44, in an environment that you like, or go to 48+ on an unknown environment ?
I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
+1I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
mikees said:
conanius said:
Do you want to stay on 44, in an environment that you like, or go to 48+ on an unknown environment ?
I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
+1I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
You can't make a decision until there is a decision to make.
Sounds like a good idea. The only thing I'm wary of is annoying them by applying out and them getting the reference request and subsequently deciding not to offer any more because of it.
But I guess, in which case, I wouldn't get to that position, as I'd have either left or there would have been a retention offer I'd be agreeing to?
But I guess, in which case, I wouldn't get to that position, as I'd have either left or there would have been a retention offer I'd be agreeing to?
Unless teaching is different to how other workplaces operate I wouldn't expect the potential employer to approach your current employer for a reference before you accepted a role with them.
I can't see any reason to not apply for the new role. You need to do that to find out as much as possible about it.
And of course until you are offered the new job there isn't really a decision to make, anyway...
I can't see any reason to not apply for the new role. You need to do that to find out as much as possible about it.
And of course until you are offered the new job there isn't really a decision to make, anyway...
Not many jobs where you get a 3k regardless of what you do in the year. As has been said though you need to see what your offered first as you may well be thinking of a dilemma that won't exist, clearly though whatever happens you aren't 100 percent happy or you wouldn't be tentatively looking anyway IMHO.
Trailhead said:
mikees said:
conanius said:
Do you want to stay on 44, in an environment that you like, or go to 48+ on an unknown environment ?
I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
+1I think I'd not mention the other job, and get an offer in writing before speaking to my current employer. What if you mention it, your boss goes sour, and you don't get the job?
IMO, Apply for the other job, get an offer, see what you think.
You can't make a decision until there is a decision to make.
Get the offer and then decide what you are going to do.
chrisxr2 said:
Not many jobs where you get a 3k regardless of what you do in the year. As has been said though you need to see what your offered first as you may well be thinking of a dilemma that won't exist, clearly though whatever happens you aren't 100 percent happy or you wouldn't be tentatively looking anyway IMHO.
It used to be like that - rewarded for basically anything - but it's not anymore. Hence I don't want to be just palmed off with 'the norm' for securing the biggest improvement in the Borough by a country mile and certainly one of the biggest improvements in the whole region, I would think. I wouldn't have looked/noticed the job if it wasn't for the message from a friend. I get on fairly well with the head, especially since the results!
In teaching it's fairly normal for reference requests to go out at the same time as candidates are invited to interview - that way governors etc can see them during the panel interview.
Good advice already re applying for other job but there is a few things you can do in the meantime
1) Read your teachers pay policy , does it incorporate the recent changes? Schools are able to set Teachers pay how they choose so what is your schools policy?
2) Another option would be an honorarium. Even if the policy restricts pay "jumps" then there is the option for the HT to request an additional payment from the Finance committee to reflect the extra workload and progress you have made.
I'm a former Chair of Governors so had to read up a lot on all these changes prior to writing a policy, we are very quick to hold poor teaching to account but not to reward good teaching.
Well done by the way!
1) Read your teachers pay policy , does it incorporate the recent changes? Schools are able to set Teachers pay how they choose so what is your schools policy?
2) Another option would be an honorarium. Even if the policy restricts pay "jumps" then there is the option for the HT to request an additional payment from the Finance committee to reflect the extra workload and progress you have made.
I'm a former Chair of Governors so had to read up a lot on all these changes prior to writing a policy, we are very quick to hold poor teaching to account but not to reward good teaching.
Well done by the way!
Thanks very much. I'm very proud of what I've achieved given the circumstances. 46% C+ to 73% C+ inside 6 months in a department which had huge holes in will ride high on my CV for some time. I'm fairly sure it will be one of the biggest improvements in the whole of South Yorkshire, once figures are publicly released.
Is an honorarium similar to an old R&R payment?
Our policy has been changed in recent weeks and months to reflect all the new changes. They're going to be fairly rigorous with it, I think. That doesn't concern me, of course. I'm just mildly irked that I raised the issue in my original interview, have raised it with the head a couple of times in the last couple of months, and there's still no movement on the ground.
I've also had some advice saying that if my current head were to offer my more, he might require me to take on additional responsibilities. I'm very good with data/strategy/curriculum planning/co-ordination intervention whole school. And science and maths have already been to see me in the opening fortnight to seek my advice regarding these issues. So I'm also prepared for that.
I tried to speak to the head today, but he was leaving school as the bell was ringing and won't be back in until tomorrow afternoon. So I'll try again then.
Is an honorarium similar to an old R&R payment?
Our policy has been changed in recent weeks and months to reflect all the new changes. They're going to be fairly rigorous with it, I think. That doesn't concern me, of course. I'm just mildly irked that I raised the issue in my original interview, have raised it with the head a couple of times in the last couple of months, and there's still no movement on the ground.
I've also had some advice saying that if my current head were to offer my more, he might require me to take on additional responsibilities. I'm very good with data/strategy/curriculum planning/co-ordination intervention whole school. And science and maths have already been to see me in the opening fortnight to seek my advice regarding these issues. So I'm also prepared for that.
I tried to speak to the head today, but he was leaving school as the bell was ringing and won't be back in until tomorrow afternoon. So I'll try again then.
Time to start blowing your own trumpet on that application form. You have nothing to lose at all. If your current head finds out somehow then so what? It certainly shows that you are feeling undervalued.
Don't speak to the head just yet. Get the other job first, then enter discussions over pay- you'll hold all of the bargaining power by then.
Don't speak to the head just yet. Get the other job first, then enter discussions over pay- you'll hold all of the bargaining power by then.
Married to a teacher but from what i've gathered over the past few years is that they dont give you that money for nothing be it private or academy.
I'd keep your options open but know that if you go for an interview they will contact the head for a reference so let them know as it'd hack them off especially if you dont get it and have to return.
If you like the environment (and for that count for alot) do you hold any duties or can push on the TLA's to bump your salary like G&T co-ord etc? My wife who has been in it for a 4-5 years gets very well rewarded for her extra's and is up for the whole jump into the senior grade this year.
I'd keep your options open but know that if you go for an interview they will contact the head for a reference so let them know as it'd hack them off especially if you dont get it and have to return.
If you like the environment (and for that count for alot) do you hold any duties or can push on the TLA's to bump your salary like G&T co-ord etc? My wife who has been in it for a 4-5 years gets very well rewarded for her extra's and is up for the whole jump into the senior grade this year.
I would always tell them about the application if I went through with it - allowing someone to get a reference request without having at least politely warned them in advance is just rude. The question is whether I raise the issue before I apply, or as I do, really.
In terms of offering them extra, I would offer to take on a whole school data role.
I'm just unsure as to what is best in the long term.
In terms of offering them extra, I would offer to take on a whole school data role.
I'm just unsure as to what is best in the long term.
spud989 said:
Thanks very much. I'm very proud of what I've achieved given the circumstances. 46% C+ to 73% C+ inside 6 months in a department which had huge holes in will ride high on my CV for some time. I'm fairly sure it will be one of the biggest improvements in the whole of South Yorkshire, once figures are publicly released.
Is an honorarium similar to an old R&R payment?
Our policy has been changed in recent weeks and months to reflect all the new changes. They're going to be fairly rigorous with it, I think. That doesn't concern me, of course. I'm just mildly irked that I raised the issue in my original interview, have raised it with the head a couple of times in the last couple of months, and there's still no movement on the ground.
I've also had some advice saying that if my current head were to offer my more, he might require me to take on additional responsibilities. I'm very good with data/strategy/curriculum planning/co-ordination intervention whole school. And science and maths have already been to see me in the opening fortnight to seek my advice regarding these issues. So I'm also prepared for that.
I tried to speak to the head today, but he was leaving school as the bell was ringing and won't be back in until tomorrow afternoon. So I'll try again then.
Not familiar with R&R but honorariums are used as a one-off payment really not to reflect changes to their job but different schools use them in different ways . We have used them to reflect staff going the extra mile or making additional effort. Increasing the performance as you have done would merit a significant pay increase , the HT would certainly get one ! Is an honorarium similar to an old R&R payment?
Our policy has been changed in recent weeks and months to reflect all the new changes. They're going to be fairly rigorous with it, I think. That doesn't concern me, of course. I'm just mildly irked that I raised the issue in my original interview, have raised it with the head a couple of times in the last couple of months, and there's still no movement on the ground.
I've also had some advice saying that if my current head were to offer my more, he might require me to take on additional responsibilities. I'm very good with data/strategy/curriculum planning/co-ordination intervention whole school. And science and maths have already been to see me in the opening fortnight to seek my advice regarding these issues. So I'm also prepared for that.
I tried to speak to the head today, but he was leaving school as the bell was ringing and won't be back in until tomorrow afternoon. So I'll try again then.
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