Discussion
You would think that something so simple with as many potentially positive outcomes would be viewed in a much better light, people generally only have negative comments when asked about there experience regarding appraisals
Personally I don't believe in the outcomes, so how would you go about changing people's opinions?
What's your thoughts on the matter?
Personally I don't believe in the outcomes, so how would you go about changing people's opinions?
What's your thoughts on the matter?
20 years as an employee, having had 20 plus appraisals, none of which ever went my way, is now the reason why for 5 year I've been my own boss.
I can't have been so mediocre, because I was promoted a few times, but I came to believe that the manager in general used the appraisal to point out all my weaknesses, not because they expected me to actually be able to fix them, but to justify why my pay rise would be mediocre.
I can't have been so mediocre, because I was promoted a few times, but I came to believe that the manager in general used the appraisal to point out all my weaknesses, not because they expected me to actually be able to fix them, but to justify why my pay rise would be mediocre.
When done well they are a very useful tool.
Having said that, the first time I ever had to do them as a manager, I'd just been given a new team and had to carry out 14 appraisals in two weeks, as well as all the other work I had to do. Unsurprisingly, I did them badly.
After that, I took to doing one member of staff a fortnight. Each one got the preparation it deserved and it was a useful management tool for planning longer term actions.
Having said that, the first time I ever had to do them as a manager, I'd just been given a new team and had to carry out 14 appraisals in two weeks, as well as all the other work I had to do. Unsurprisingly, I did them badly.
After that, I took to doing one member of staff a fortnight. Each one got the preparation it deserved and it was a useful management tool for planning longer term actions.
Due to budget cuts where I work the person who does my appraisal now us not a manager and cannot make any decisions - also one of the results is that you get a pay rise and surprise surprise it is probably never given out.
Those are the 2 main reasons peopel don't like apprisals where I work.
That said, if you are speaking to a manager then ti can be good to outline training needs etc and career plans.
Think it depends on a number of factors really.
Those are the 2 main reasons peopel don't like apprisals where I work.
That said, if you are speaking to a manager then ti can be good to outline training needs etc and career plans.
Think it depends on a number of factors really.
brianb said:
You would think that something so simple with as many potentially positive outcomes would be viewed in a much better light, people generally only have negative comments when asked about there experience regarding appraisals
Personally I don't believe in the outcomes, so how would you go about changing people's opinions?
What's your thoughts on the matter?
That statement does not, on the face of it, make sense. The outcomes are outcomes, your not believing in them won't make any difference.Personally I don't believe in the outcomes, so how would you go about changing people's opinions?
What's your thoughts on the matter?
I actually quite like them, they can easily be twisted to my agenda (getting more money and making incompetent people look incompetent)
I got a massive payrise a couple of years ago and that basically started out with me 'misunderstanding' the new appraisal system and scoring/appraising my boss instead of myself due to oddly worded questions and the use of the constant term '360' and the file ended up with HR that then some how got to the MD.. Oops.
I got a massive payrise a couple of years ago and that basically started out with me 'misunderstanding' the new appraisal system and scoring/appraising my boss instead of myself due to oddly worded questions and the use of the constant term '360' and the file ended up with HR that then some how got to the MD.. Oops.
As others had said, they are a valuable tool if implemented in a decent framework.
ie - if they are only being done yearly, and then the next time they are dug out of the filing cabinet is a year later.....then what is the point? Targets/ goals will have been forgotten and perhaps promised career development not implemented.
With good management and quarterly reviews of targets and proper feedback, they can be quite motivating.
I should add that this is not how my firm do it, and hence they are disliked by most
ie - if they are only being done yearly, and then the next time they are dug out of the filing cabinet is a year later.....then what is the point? Targets/ goals will have been forgotten and perhaps promised career development not implemented.
With good management and quarterly reviews of targets and proper feedback, they can be quite motivating.
I should add that this is not how my firm do it, and hence they are disliked by most
eddy209 said:
As others had said, they are a valuable tool if implemented in a decent framework.
ie - if they are only being done yearly, and then the next time they are dug out of the filing cabinet is a year later.....then what is the point? Targets/ goals will have been forgotten and perhaps promised career development not implemented.
With good management and quarterly reviews of targets and proper feedback, they can be quite motivating.
I should add that this is not how my firm do it, and hence they are disliked by most
In 2010 I think it was I actually concentrated soully on my goals from my appraisal, I made them and based them on my job description, I didnt make them easy but made them relevant and appropriate, I acheived all goals and did far more, ie - if they are only being done yearly, and then the next time they are dug out of the filing cabinet is a year later.....then what is the point? Targets/ goals will have been forgotten and perhaps promised career development not implemented.
With good management and quarterly reviews of targets and proper feedback, they can be quite motivating.
I should add that this is not how my firm do it, and hence they are disliked by most
I scored myself appropriately ie as high as possible the following year, my boss took exception to that, I had proof of my goals and forfilling them and more evidence of surpassing them, but he just wouldnt let me score top in everything even though it would reflect well on him, it didnt in the end as I refused to sign it, which got HR involved wanting to know why, they then tried to pressure me to sign it.
I did in the end sign it, after it had been amended slightly but still not to my liking.
Nick Grant said:
When my wife gave up work to look after our son and the house I told her there would be three monthly goal setting and appraisals. She was not impressed.
"Now skirting boards. How do you think that we can improve here? We really don't want to let another year pass with only a 30% satisfaction rating for these do we...."They should be a really useful tool but in my experience of 35 years in the workplace the process is poorly managed by most largely because the appraisers are not properly trained/prepared and the too often there is an unhealthy connection with reward. In my early years being appraised I always felt it was just a useful tool for management to supress eager, ambitious juniors. It's easy to default to finding fault rather than highlighting positives and development plans usually just contain a list of courses that everyone had to attend anyway.
Mid-career I worked for an enlightened employer where appraisals were taken seriously and people understood the difference between competence (ie the skills and knowledge to do the job) and achievement (whether you have done a good job, ie met or exceeded your objectives). Just in my function alone we developed a 47 point competence tool together with a tailored learning and development program. People loved it because they had confidence in the process to make a fair assessment and then help them grow and improve. Salary reviews were a separate process conducted by a panel of managers assessing a pool of employees at the same grade. Again it was seen as fair as it ironed out inconsistencies and prevented favouritism.
Mid-career I worked for an enlightened employer where appraisals were taken seriously and people understood the difference between competence (ie the skills and knowledge to do the job) and achievement (whether you have done a good job, ie met or exceeded your objectives). Just in my function alone we developed a 47 point competence tool together with a tailored learning and development program. People loved it because they had confidence in the process to make a fair assessment and then help them grow and improve. Salary reviews were a separate process conducted by a panel of managers assessing a pool of employees at the same grade. Again it was seen as fair as it ironed out inconsistencies and prevented favouritism.
The problem with 'appraisals', and it is evident here, is that people see them as an annual cycle event. A sit down appraisal is really just a culmination of a continual process of feedback, critique, praise, areas for improvement, objective setting etc.
The business environment and priorities change. I am sure for most of you that if you were able to sit here and plan out the next 12 months, predicting everything that will happenand that you will need to do, that your job and career will feel a bit mundane. The appraisal process has to be dynamic to meet those changing requirements too.
However, as an HR person and a manager, this is the panacea of how it should work. Like most change processes, you have to start somewhere. Many companies get stuck in the acceptance/compliance/fear of change stage and soldier on reluctantly. One train of thought is that once you have some routine going then you can build on that. However, quite often the cynicism and sceptisim has already set in too far. A more engaged and positive attitude from managers also goes a long way. How often do you hear stories of managers saying things such as 'here is another HR thing, let's just get it out the way'. The appraisal process is just another tool to help manage people. In the same way that managers, like flexi time, or bonuses, team day outs, etc. If managers took responsibility and felt integral to the process then it would be much better.
My best managers have 1 to 1s and reviews with their teams every 2 weeks or once a month. These are not 2 hour marathons but simple 10 to 30 minute informal meetings.
The business environment and priorities change. I am sure for most of you that if you were able to sit here and plan out the next 12 months, predicting everything that will happenand that you will need to do, that your job and career will feel a bit mundane. The appraisal process has to be dynamic to meet those changing requirements too.
However, as an HR person and a manager, this is the panacea of how it should work. Like most change processes, you have to start somewhere. Many companies get stuck in the acceptance/compliance/fear of change stage and soldier on reluctantly. One train of thought is that once you have some routine going then you can build on that. However, quite often the cynicism and sceptisim has already set in too far. A more engaged and positive attitude from managers also goes a long way. How often do you hear stories of managers saying things such as 'here is another HR thing, let's just get it out the way'. The appraisal process is just another tool to help manage people. In the same way that managers, like flexi time, or bonuses, team day outs, etc. If managers took responsibility and felt integral to the process then it would be much better.
My best managers have 1 to 1s and reviews with their teams every 2 weeks or once a month. These are not 2 hour marathons but simple 10 to 30 minute informal meetings.
Interesting EDC.
In the environment I described HR had little direct involvement at all, they provided an advisory service. Managers took responsibility which is one reason why it was in their interests to make it work. Since then sadly there has been massive delayering of management in many industries so this process suffers. At the time I had a team of between 9-11 managers. I spent up to 60% of my time coaching and developing and the rest on my own business projects. Fast forward 10 years and it was more like 20/80 at best.
In the environment I described HR had little direct involvement at all, they provided an advisory service. Managers took responsibility which is one reason why it was in their interests to make it work. Since then sadly there has been massive delayering of management in many industries so this process suffers. At the time I had a team of between 9-11 managers. I spent up to 60% of my time coaching and developing and the rest on my own business projects. Fast forward 10 years and it was more like 20/80 at best.
ChasW said:
Interesting EDC.
In the environment I described HR had little direct involvement at all, they provided an advisory service. Managers took responsibility which is one reason why it was in their interests to make it work. Since then sadly there has been massive delayering of management in many industries so this process suffers. At the time I had a team of between 9-11 managers. I spent up to 60% of my time coaching and developing and the rest on my own business projects. Fast forward 10 years and it was more like 20/80 at best.
It is great that your organisational culture can support that and that your managers are at a level that they can perform in this way. Unfortunately, many are not and HR evolves into a role of headmaster trying to whip managers into shape.In the environment I described HR had little direct involvement at all, they provided an advisory service. Managers took responsibility which is one reason why it was in their interests to make it work. Since then sadly there has been massive delayering of management in many industries so this process suffers. At the time I had a team of between 9-11 managers. I spent up to 60% of my time coaching and developing and the rest on my own business projects. Fast forward 10 years and it was more like 20/80 at best.
In the situation you describe I would see the role of HR as a more consultative one, a partnering one where you can bounce your ideas off and get assistance to develop a process or tool. For me, HR or management is a bit like parenting. In the early days you have to set the boundaries, provide the tools to achieve things and a structure. With that comes increasing responsibility. Later the structure is there but there is more autonomy. You start thinking about improvements and adjustments to suit your situation. When you have another child you do not rip up the book and start again but you refine what you already have and apply it again. Of course, you might rip it up if it was a complete disaster!
However, lift that out of your department or team environment and look at it from a different perspective of how you can implement a process across multiple departments, businesses or even across the globe then whilst what you are doing for your department is brilliant you could effectively have dozens or hundreds of similar but different tools running. That is a lot of wasted resource and effort. It also means a different way of working when you move internally. It also does not allow like for like comparisons. Those are some of the reasons for standard work and why you often see a top down appraoch rather than bottom up. You often get the 'I can do it better' syndrome. And, of course, many can but the consequence and context is not necessarily thought of by the regular manager.
The urge to standardise management processes across large organisations risks stifling creative thought and demotivating good mangers. Unless there is a very clear economy of scale to be gained, better to leave it diverse and allow process to compete and evolve. Adherence to a process obviously doesn't guaratee effectiveness, so having a firm wide process does not simplify assessment of individual bits of the firm. It does makes it easier to summarise firm wide data, but that is far less important than improving productivity. If an organisation resorts to specifying these process from the top down, then something has already gone badly wrong and enforcing a standardised process is not at likely to address it.
To improve the opinion of them I would make the appraisal a two way appraisal, of the employers performance AND the employees performance equally.
I would introduce subjects for inclusion at the start the appraisal such as:
Is your work environment comfortable/safe? Can it be improved?
Do you feel any stress or hate coming in to work? Why?
Does the employer give you [the employee] enough training?
Does the employer give you [the employee] the appropriate tools to do the job?
Do you [the employee] feel that you are wasting time due to internal procedural problems?
Do you [the employee] see any way to improve company performance?
Have you felt intimidated or bullied by colleagues at all?
Do colleagues/managers support you and have appropriate skills in your opinion?
I would introduce subjects for inclusion at the start the appraisal such as:
Is your work environment comfortable/safe? Can it be improved?
Do you feel any stress or hate coming in to work? Why?
Does the employer give you [the employee] enough training?
Does the employer give you [the employee] the appropriate tools to do the job?
Do you [the employee] feel that you are wasting time due to internal procedural problems?
Do you [the employee] see any way to improve company performance?
Have you felt intimidated or bullied by colleagues at all?
Do colleagues/managers support you and have appropriate skills in your opinion?
JonRB said:
The annual b
ks that are Appraisals were one of the (many) things that made me decide to go freelance / contract back in 1999. I haven't been a permanent employee since.
The previous annual appraisal may not have helped in the round of redundancies which presented me with the opportunity to Go freelance in 2009. There is no way I'm having another appraisal. ks that are Appraisals were one of the (many) things that made me decide to go freelance / contract back in 1999. I haven't been a permanent employee since. I like them if they are done properly.
Last job - was in it for 3 months, every couple of weeks went for a beer with the manager who told me what I needed to work on plus a few minutes each day with his boss telling me how things went, was delighted when my line manager was made given the job permanently.
Current job - in it for 18 months, had one appraisal which was "no issues with your work [including a project I had nothing to do with], very happy but you will never get promoted in this department", was told a couple of months later that we don't do appraisals as no news is good news, any feedback will be given in team meetings, not had a team meeting for 3 months.
Last job - was in it for 3 months, every couple of weeks went for a beer with the manager who told me what I needed to work on plus a few minutes each day with his boss telling me how things went, was delighted when my line manager was made given the job permanently.
Current job - in it for 18 months, had one appraisal which was "no issues with your work [including a project I had nothing to do with], very happy but you will never get promoted in this department", was told a couple of months later that we don't do appraisals as no news is good news, any feedback will be given in team meetings, not had a team meeting for 3 months.
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