Making sure to get put on gardening leave

[Du1point8]

Breadvan72 said:

How very twelve year old of you.

who me?

I have my reasons for doing what I did....

1) Im not allowed by internal IT Security to give out any of my passwords/logons otherwise Im held accountable.
2) Is a little bit of a longer story summarised below:

I was the only permanent member of staff in a team of 6 so should have been safe, they decided in the round of cuts that one person needed to go and despite the fact I had been with the company for 9 years with a great record and many of the rest of the team had been with the company for 2 - 4 months and not up to speed on anything, they would let me go as the new project manager was friends with the rest of the team (all contractors) and therefore decided on friendship over who could look after systems.

They knew nothing of the work I did holding together 2 trading systems, as the PM had systematically removed everyone else, demanded I took up the slack so was on call for the 2 systems and since he removed the other on call staff, I was on call permanently for 4 months 24/7...

Then came the cut, during the exit meeting (15 mins after I was told I would be going), I was told that all I did for the company was irrelevant, no longer necessary and they didn't know why I was even still here...

To be told that and to leave in 30mins, there was no need for a handover, despite me suggesting one and if I didn't leave now security would be escorting me out in 5 mins... Kind of means they burned their chance of any help without me being physically present in the building.

This was also so I was not attempted to be stitched up as they had tried before, when screwing up a trade that cost £25k and trying to blame myself early in the week.

There was many other incidents that should not have gone on and several of them should have been kicked earlier...

Team lead taking a swing at the lead on call supervisor, same team lead throwing a monitor on the floor of a co worker (looked at him funny), lots of code reuse that had to be pointed out to him as it still had another banks copyright on the headings and finally the BA couldn't turn up to work for 2 weeks as he was too busy playing online poker and would be spotted in meetings (down coffee shop playing said poker) that would last all day.

All friends of the PM, so it was all allowed to slide and HR were never involved.

[anonymous-user]

So what would IT security do to you, eh? Fire you? Think about that one for a moment. You could have been a grown up and assisted in a handover as you left, but you decided to have a sulk, and delayed projects that belonged to your employer, not to you. How very twelve year old of you.

[Du1point8]

Breadvan72 said:

So what would IT security do to you, eh? Fire you? Think about that one for a moment. You could have been a grown up and assisted in a handover as you left, but you decided to have a sulk, and delayed projects that belonged to your employer, not to you. How very twelve year old of you.

Standard practice, If something went wrong with the release and the full admin rights of trading platforms I ran (billions of GBP a day) and my account was found to be used as I handed it across, I would be blamed, I could have lost my compromise agreement and the ability to work in the same niche sector again.

Or are you saying you would quite happily give all your logons and passwords to a colleague, even though you still have the ability to access everything from home (still had a work laptop) so whilst I could be cleared of it, the fact its against company policy to hand them across would ruin my chances of working in the sector again.

[Muzzer79]

OP, I'm not sure why you think you're "entitled" to gardening leave just because, you've worked there a long time......

If you hate everyone and everything, just resign and ask for a month's notice or even less and go to your fantastic new job?

If they value you that little, they'll let you go

[anonymous-user]

A sensible employer makes clear that employee and contractor passwords for company systems are the property of the employer, and changes them when the employee or contractor leaves.

[ChasW]

Du1point8 said:

Breadvan72 said:

So what would IT security do to you, eh? Fire you? Think about that one for a moment. You could have been a grown up and assisted in a handover as you left, but you decided to have a sulk, and delayed projects that belonged to your employer, not to you. How very twelve year old of you.

Standard practice, If something went wrong with the release and the full admin rights of trading platforms I ran (billions of GBP a day) and my account was found to be used as I handed it across, I would be blamed, I could have lost my compromise agreement and the ability to work in the same niche sector again.

Or are you saying you would quite happily give all your logons and passwords to a colleague, even though you still have the ability to access everything from home (still had a work laptop) so whilst I could be cleared of it, the fact its against company policy to hand them across would ruin my chances of working in the sector again.

I think this is a lesson for the employer that thinks they can get rid of people with 30 mins notice without any consequences. I once worked for a massive IT company that was making savage redundancies. Being a senior manager I had access to the list of "victims" and noticed that one of the poor sods was the only person that knew how the pricing system was cobbled together. I was not even in his function but knew enough to be aware of our vulnerability. Fortunately I managed to get this guy off the list. It saved the company millions and me much pain. I would have not blamed the chap if he had held the company to ransom. They created their own problem through sheer mis-management and disrespect for individuals. Why should an employee in these circumstances play it straight? I wouldn't. If companies don't want their employees to act like 12 year olds then they should show them adult respect.

[Pit Pony]

When I was made redundant, there was a great deal of relief as I hated the job, and trepidation, because I had no job to go to, although I'd spent the last 6 weeks trying to find one. I didn't volunteer, which would have doubled my redundancy pay. From ZERO to 2 time zero. Anyway I was on a contract with 3 months notice, and was told that I would NOT be required to come in, but I could keep my laptop for 3 months. They would also pay me normally for those 3 months.

Anyway, I'd been for a couple of interviews when they phoned me, to ask me to bring the laptop back. So I trotted in, on the way back from another interview. When I got there my boss was at the other site 5 miles away, and could I go over there. No problem as I sent them a bill for my petrol for £4.50.

Anyway, he, and the lad that was deemed to be better than me, were trying to get a moulding machine producing good product, and they asked if I could help.

Yes, what process spec does the works order call up ? Print it off. Follow the steps word for word. Set the machine dails as per the chart. 10 mins later it's producing good product.

When I got home, I'd been offered 1 of the three contracts, and was free to start when the security clearance had gone through.

Call it gardening leave if you like, but I like to think it's 3 months of building something (if only a buffer for next time)

[mph1977]

Breadvan72 said:

A sensible employer makes clear that employee and contractor passwords for company systems are the property of the employer, and changes them when the employee or contractor leaves.

in many systems in all kinds of different secotrs your login is effectively your signature / seal on the record / action / decisions recorded by the system

if you are happy to leave me your seal to play with and access to client files breadvan....

[blade runner]

Muzzer79 said:

OP, I'm not sure why you think you're "entitled" to gardening leave just because, you've worked there a long time......

If you hate everyone and everything, just resign and ask for a month's notice or even less and go to your fantastic new job?

My motivation is to get at least something back for being so poorly treated by the new owners despite 17 years of service with a faultless record. If I really wanted to screw every last penny out of the company, I could do what others with long service are doing and just hang around doing very little until redundancy is offered when the business moves to Germany. If I did that I'd get a tax free lump sum + full pay for 3 months notice without being expected to work it, so financially I'd be far better off.

I'm out of a job whatever happens because the new owners have placed absolutely zero value on anyone currently working in the UK office. They want people to walk of their own volition so they can get out of paying redundancy and have made the working environment deliberately difficult to engineer as much natural wastage as possible before the move. As I see it, I'm doing them a favour by going of my own accord now as it will save them a big redundancy bill later on. The least they can do is pay me my notice period without expecting me to work it, as we both know I'm not going to be at all productive during this period anyway.

[anonymous-user]

mph1977 said:

Breadvan72 said:

A sensible employer makes clear that employee and contractor passwords for company systems are the property of the employer, and changes them when the employee or contractor leaves.

in many systems in all kinds of different secotrs your login is effectively your signature / seal on the record / action / decisions recorded by the system

if you are happy to leave me your seal to play with and access to client files breadvan....

The system and its attributes belong to the employer, and it can terminate access when someone leaves. Preventing an employer from having access to its own information isn't a very responsible act. I did a case once in which an employee was lawfully dismissed for misconduct because he wouldn't hand over passwords on request from his employer.

[jesta1865]

mph1977 said:

Breadvan72 said:

A sensible employer makes clear that employee and contractor passwords for company systems are the property of the employer, and changes them when the employee or contractor leaves.

in many systems in all kinds of different secotrs your login is effectively your signature / seal on the record / action / decisions recorded by the system

if you are happy to leave me your seal to play with and access to client files breadvan....

I have a great deal of respect for you BV but I fight tooth and nail week in week out to try and get people not to share accounts, passwords etc. Change them to stop people coming in remotely, but not so someone else can use the account. Auditors would tear you a new one if it went wrong and you'd done that.

I've been in the position of the angel of death (the IT guy that locks people out when they are being seen by HR) and on 3 occasions I have had to re-enable accounts as they got rid of people who were the only ones who knew to do a particular job.

the account is the only record on the system, and if passwords are shared you can never be sure who did the actual deed. i've had to explain this to both auditors (years ago) and BiB. The police one was when we knew someone had ordered a couple of grands kit fraudulently, but it was done under someone elses id and so nothing came of it, the company had to swallow it.

[Du1point8]

Breadvan72 said:

mph1977 said:

Breadvan72 said:

A sensible employer makes clear that employee and contractor passwords for company systems are the property of the employer, and changes them when the employee or contractor leaves.

in many systems in all kinds of different secotrs your login is effectively your signature / seal on the record / action / decisions recorded by the system

if you are happy to leave me your seal to play with and access to client files breadvan....

The system and its attributes belong to the employer, and it can terminate access when someone leaves. Preventing an employer from having access to its own information isn't a very responsible act. I did a case once in which an employee was lawfully dismissed for misconduct because he wouldn't hand over passwords on request from his employer.

An official request in writing would be fine, a colleague asking for them... nope not a chance.

I would want the official request to get the green light by the head of department and IT security, I would then expect the passwords to be changed the moment they have been handed across and no repercussions that could come back.

In my case it was simply a colleague who would not get an official request, so I would not hand them across, if it would be that easy a case to get everything in writing to make sure Im covered, why would they not do it?

[megapixels83]

mph1977 said:

in many systems in all kinds of different secotrs your login is effectively your signature / seal on the record / action / decisions recorded by the system

if you are happy to leave me your seal to play with and access to client files breadvan....

Very much so, happened to a very senior colleague of mine, something very similar came back to bite him like this about 5 years after he had left the job. The end result was he had 9 months off to prepare for the case, got extremely ill and eventually had a breakdown and left his current job and all because of a digital signature attributed to him that was used without him actually being present.

As far as I am concerned my passwords on systems like that are an extension of my signature which I own and my company does not.

If you say you do not have a contract in place then feck em, that is if you are not relying on a reference. Send in your resignation with a week to handover what you can. You owe them nothing, they owe you nothing you have done the work in the past fulfilling your part of the contract and they have paid you fulfilling there. if they cant be arsed to get contracts in place that is their fault and not yours. Harsh, maybe but life is too short.

Edited by megapixels83 on Friday 3rd October 20:33

[jamoor]

blade runner said:

Hopefully just because they don't want an unproductive, dissatisfied and potentially disruptive manager in the office for the next three months. Surely I anyway don't have to tell them who my new employer is? I could just refuse to tell them and they may assume that it's a competitor from my refusal to discuss. I'm not too worried about getting a future reference from my current employer so can afford to be an annoyance to some extent.

You will potentially burn a bridge surely?

Why not just leave professionally and you never know you may need them in the future/vice versa!

[PorkInsider]

Certainly more 'entitled' and 'irreplaceable' people commenting on this thread than I'd have expected.

Salt and vinegar for your chips, anyone?