Paying back holiday
Discussion
mph1977 said:
holiday 'accrual' is for agency workers and casuals .
while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
Did you just make that up so that you had something to post?while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
It's utter rubbish.
Taking more leave than the entitlement
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
Countdown said:
Taking more leave than the entitlement
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
This.If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
And that's the reason that no employer should allow an employee to take more than they have accrued!
Grandfondo said:
Countdown said:
Taking more leave than the entitlement
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
This.If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
And that's the reason that no employer should allow an employee to take more than they have accrued!
so no leave whatsoever should be granted in the first two weeks of January / April ?
no one can have a week leave en bloc until 8. 3333 weeks into the leave year ?
I have never seen that in any organisation public / private or charity for it's contracted hours paid staff...
nor have i seen it with agency / ZHC/ Casual / bank - although there is usually a warning aobut accrual of holiday pay unless holiday pay from the last leave year is carried over.
mph1977 said:
Grandfondo said:
Countdown said:
Taking more leave than the entitlement
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
This.If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
And that's the reason that no employer should allow an employee to take more than they have accrued!
so no leave whatsoever should be granted in the first two weeks of January / April ?
no one can have a week leave en bloc until 8. 3333 weeks into the leave year ?
I have never seen that in any organisation public / private or charity for it's contracted hours paid staff...
nor have i seen it with agency / ZHC/ Casual / bank - although there is usually a warning aobut accrual of holiday pay
unless holiday pay from the last leave year is carried over.
mph1977 said:
Grandfondo said:
Countdown said:
Taking more leave than the entitlement
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
This.If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site.
And that's the reason that no employer should allow an employee to take more than they have accrued!
so no leave whatsoever should be granted in the first two weeks of January / April ?
no one can have a week leave en bloc until 8. 3333 weeks into the leave year ?
I have never seen that in any organisation public / private or charity for it's contracted hours paid staff...
nor have i seen it with agency / ZHC/ Casual / bank - although there is usually a warning aobut accrual of holiday pay
unless holiday pay from the last leave year is carried over.
If it was in the best interest of the business unpaid leave may be granted but the employee should be made aware that they would be losing paid leave pro-rata ie if they took 10 days unpaid leave they would lose 1 day paid leave of their allocated holiday entitlement!
Grandfondo said:
No,
If it was in the best interest of the business unpaid leave may be granted but the employee should be made aware that they would be losing paid leave pro-rata ie if they took 10 days unpaid leave they would lose 1 day paid leave of their allocated holiday entitlement!
in other words you haven't got a clue If it was in the best interest of the business unpaid leave may be granted but the employee should be made aware that they would be losing paid leave pro-rata ie if they took 10 days unpaid leave they would lose 1 day paid leave of their allocated holiday entitlement!
no organisation i have worked for public or private has required contracted hours staff to 'accrue' hoilday before taking it
no organisation I have worked for public or private has illegally removed paid holiday if people take unpaid leave.
and just to add fuel to the rage of the clueless - you can't be in two work statuses at once thereforeany leave lost to sickness or suspension has to be returned to the balance to be taken .
mph1977 said:
Grandfondo said:
No,
If it was in the best interest of the business unpaid leave may be granted but the employee should be made aware that they would be losing paid leave pro-rata ie if they took 10 days unpaid leave they would lose 1 day paid leave of their allocated holiday entitlement!
in other words you haven't got a clue If it was in the best interest of the business unpaid leave may be granted but the employee should be made aware that they would be losing paid leave pro-rata ie if they took 10 days unpaid leave they would lose 1 day paid leave of their allocated holiday entitlement!
no organisation i have worked for public or private has required contracted hours staff to 'accrue' hoilday before taking it
no organisation I have worked for public or private has illegally removed paid holiday if people take unpaid leave.
and just to add fuel to the rage of the clueless - you can't be in two work statuses at once thereforeany leave lost to sickness or suspension has to be returned to the balance to be taken .
2) If an employee took 6 months unpaid leave would they be entitled to 1 years holiday entitlement? NO! So not illegaly removing paid holiday!
3) Correct.
Im no lawyer, but the consensus on this thread that if she has signed no contract then she doesn't have to pay it back must surely be nonsense?
If there is no contract then there are either implied terms for the holiday rights or she has simply been overpaid.
Either way she owes the money back as far as I am concerned.
If there is no contract then there are either implied terms for the holiday rights or she has simply been overpaid.
Either way she owes the money back as far as I am concerned.
Of course morally she owes the money back but without her written conscent legally you can't deduct the money frow her final pay.
This is something I have been caught out with before and now don't allow employees to take paid leave that is not accrued and if they take unpaid leave at my discretion they will not be accruing holiday pay in that time!
This is something I have been caught out with before and now don't allow employees to take paid leave that is not accrued and if they take unpaid leave at my discretion they will not be accruing holiday pay in that time!
Lots of myths exist in the employment area.
Firstly you do not need to have a signed contract for a contract to exist. That is a myth. If you want to understand it better then the clearest description I know is here
Holiday entitlement does accrue, that is the usual term. If more is taken than has been accrued than the employer can only deduct it from pay if it's by consent or in the contract. Again the same site has some pretty concise and easy to understand details here.
Firstly you do not need to have a signed contract for a contract to exist. That is a myth. If you want to understand it better then the clearest description I know is here
Holiday entitlement does accrue, that is the usual term. If more is taken than has been accrued than the employer can only deduct it from pay if it's by consent or in the contract. Again the same site has some pretty concise and easy to understand details here.
mph1977 said:
no organisation i have worked for public or private has required contracted hours staff to 'accrue' hoilday before taking it
Asda used to do it (I think they still night).The reason for this was that most people were part time but worked shedloads of overtime and would accrue extra leave based on the hours they worked. For example - me and my mate might be contracted to do 7 hours a week. He actually works 14 hours. He would therefore get twice as much leave as me.
We used to get paid weekly and our payslip would show the amount of hours leave that we had accrued. Obviously the total would go down when we took leave and go up when we earned extra hours. Back then Sundays and Bank Holidays were paid at double time plus TOIL
so the system they used for recording accrued leave was essential, given the variability..You couldn't take paid leave before it was accrued.
Regarding "not pursuing people" it's fairly simple. We knock it off their final pay slip as per contract.
swerni said:
Grandfondo said:
Of course morally she owes the money back but without her written conscent legally you can't deduct the money frow her final pay.
This is something I have been caught out with before and now don't allow employees to take paid leave that is not accrued and if they take unpaid leave at my discretion they will not be accruing holiday pay in that time!
You're very certain, i assume you're an employment lawyer?This is something I have been caught out with before and now don't allow employees to take paid leave that is not accrued and if they take unpaid leave at my discretion they will not be accruing holiday pay in that time!
swerni said:
Grandfondo said:
Of course morally she owes the money back but without her written conscent legally you can't deduct the money frow her final pay.
This is something I have been caught out with before and now don't allow employees to take paid leave that is not accrued and if they take unpaid leave at my discretion they will not be accruing holiday pay in that time!
You're very certain, i assume you're an employment lawyer?This is something I have been caught out with before and now don't allow employees to take paid leave that is not accrued and if they take unpaid leave at my discretion they will not be accruing holiday pay in that time!
Just an update:
My GF has not heard from her employer with regards to claiming monies back at the moment. Unsure if they are taking there time but apart from a phone call the day after the event, she has had no contact from the director. As far as she is aware they have terminated her employment with the company (which she is fine with).
I wonder if this will be let alone and not pursed further.
My GF has not heard from her employer with regards to claiming monies back at the moment. Unsure if they are taking there time but apart from a phone call the day after the event, she has had no contact from the director. As far as she is aware they have terminated her employment with the company (which she is fine with).
I wonder if this will be let alone and not pursed further.
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