Paying back holiday
Discussion
Girlfriend has just left her job after a few months. This was mainly due to the non functioning relationship with her manager. Long story short but her manager has no personal skills, cannot communicate without being rude, and treated my girlfriend like a child.
As such after a frank discussion her manager decided that if she wasn't happy she knew where the door is.
They have just phoned and said she hadn't worked enough days to cover all of her recent holiday, and she now owes the company some money. What are their rights to claim it back?
As I understand my girlfriend hasn't signed a contract with them so unsure where she stands legally?
As such after a frank discussion her manager decided that if she wasn't happy she knew where the door is.
They have just phoned and said she hadn't worked enough days to cover all of her recent holiday, and she now owes the company some money. What are their rights to claim it back?
As I understand my girlfriend hasn't signed a contract with them so unsure where she stands legally?
They are extremely unlikely to pursue this beyond a first or second letter.
Legally is a tricky one as it would depend in the most part on her employment contract.
In the absence of a contract, she could ask them specifically for a copy of the company handbook or policy with this provision in it.
If she hasn't signed a contract or seen this policy before she should inform them that they have no entitlement for her repay the money.
Do they owe her any wages?
Legally is a tricky one as it would depend in the most part on her employment contract.
In the absence of a contract, she could ask them specifically for a copy of the company handbook or policy with this provision in it.
If she hasn't signed a contract or seen this policy before she should inform them that they have no entitlement for her repay the money.
Do they owe her any wages?
Edited by Gargamel on Wednesday 1st October 20:58
Thanks. She had signed an offer letter when she first started the company which outlined the basic details of the job, but does not outline holiday, and it states contract will be sent over just after she started the role on 21st July.
She actually received the contract on Friday 26th September, which is not signed as yet. Her notice period within 6months is 1 week.
The director of the company just phoned her to find out more as she was out of the office on Tursday when this occurred. Rather than try to understand more about what happened she was on the defensive, supporting the manager instead. Issue is the manager in question has had run ins with other members of staff but often I think the director is not aware of these.
The company is only small of 10 employees so although my girlfriend walked out of the office after the meeting, there is not a HR department to contact to discuss if further as she feels the manager made the attack personal, and verged on the side of bullying.
She actually received the contract on Friday 26th September, which is not signed as yet. Her notice period within 6months is 1 week.
The director of the company just phoned her to find out more as she was out of the office on Tursday when this occurred. Rather than try to understand more about what happened she was on the defensive, supporting the manager instead. Issue is the manager in question has had run ins with other members of staff but often I think the director is not aware of these.
The company is only small of 10 employees so although my girlfriend walked out of the office after the meeting, there is not a HR department to contact to discuss if further as she feels the manager made the attack personal, and verged on the side of bullying.
How much holiday has she used considering she's only been there a couple of months? If she's had a week or two already it may be well over her pro-rata allowance so morally she may be in the wrong.
Without a contract not sure in reality they could do much unless she had a copy of the contract early and just hadn't gotten round to having it all signed and returned etc. not sure how long until effectively agreeing to a contract by doing the work (if this is an actual legal precedence) may kick in?
Without a contract not sure in reality they could do much unless she had a copy of the contract early and just hadn't gotten round to having it all signed and returned etc. not sure how long until effectively agreeing to a contract by doing the work (if this is an actual legal precedence) may kick in?
You are all making a big deal of the relevance of a signed contract. She worked there. She was paid. Things are implicit. There is no obligation on either party to have a signed contract. She should have been issued with a statement of terms and conditions. How would we like it if the Company turned round and said there was no contract in place so we should not pay you?
Why not simply enquire how the holiday has been calculated? Surely she already knows what the annual holiday entitlement is, what she has taken and thus has a good idea of what she will have accrued for the period worked.
Why not simply enquire how the holiday has been calculated? Surely she already knows what the annual holiday entitlement is, what she has taken and thus has a good idea of what she will have accrued for the period worked.
If she is on say a 24 holidays a year job, then she can take as much as she wants... long as she stays there for a year or what ever the holiday period is at the job April to April or Jan to Jan, etc...
So she accrues at 2 days a month, so only being there a few months (say 3) then she only has 6 days accrued, the ones above that will need to be paid back.
The only exception to the rule is if its a pre booked holiday and sometimes employers take that into account and let the new member of staff start afterwards, or let them take the holiday on the proviso that they owe holidays back.
So she accrues at 2 days a month, so only being there a few months (say 3) then she only has 6 days accrued, the ones above that will need to be paid back.
The only exception to the rule is if its a pre booked holiday and sometimes employers take that into account and let the new member of staff start afterwards, or let them take the holiday on the proviso that they owe holidays back.
edc said:
You are all making a big deal of the relevance of a signed contract. She worked there. She was paid. Things are implicit. There is no obligation on either party to have a signed contract. She should have been issued with a statement of terms and conditions. How would we like it if the Company turned round and said there was no contract in place so we should not pay you?
Why not simply enquire how the holiday has been calculated? Surely she already knows what the annual holiday entitlement is, what she has taken and thus has a good idea of what she will have accrued for the period worked.
This.Why not simply enquire how the holiday has been calculated? Surely she already knows what the annual holiday entitlement is, what she has taken and thus has a good idea of what she will have accrued for the period worked.
If she hasn't accrued enough holiday, she hasn't accrued it. Don't argue on the basis of a signed contract (or not)
If the company claim different to the contract they have supplied, that's a different matter entirely.
Just to clarify it was a pre-booked holiday, and the premise was to stay with the company long time until the recent issues. She has recently just had a pay packet so I doubt they'd would be covering the last few days.
She is waiting for more information from the company on what is outstanding and then we can take it from there. If they request the money back then that's fine, I was just unsure how it stands legally if there is not a signed contract, but it seems from the advice given then it does not make s difference.
Thank you for the feedback and we will wait to see if any more details come through.
She is waiting for more information from the company on what is outstanding and then we can take it from there. If they request the money back then that's fine, I was just unsure how it stands legally if there is not a signed contract, but it seems from the advice given then it does not make s difference.
Thank you for the feedback and we will wait to see if any more details come through.
holiday 'accrual' is for agency workers and casuals .
while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
mph1977 said:
holiday 'accrual' is for agency workers and casuals .
while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
Err, what?while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
mph1977 said:
holiday 'accrual' is for agency workers and casuals .
while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
Nope.while employers will often pay out for holiday NOT taken they have to take it on the chin if someone on a permanent contractleaves after taking booked holiday that was duly authorised. ...
the OP may also suggest to the Diretor that part of making this all go away along with an agreed reference is to quietly forget aobut anythign owed for holiday...
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