lad at work, definitely not me
Discussion
lad at work is having the worst year of his life
His older brother and both parents have all gone this year with C
He's just come down from HR, they've given him a final written warning for attendance and sickness
sufficed to say, everyone is very very annoyed with HR
the general consensus is he should take legal actions
who should see about this?, HR acting this way seems little point in appealing to them.
His older brother and both parents have all gone this year with C
He's just come down from HR, they've given him a final written warning for attendance and sickness
sufficed to say, everyone is very very annoyed with HR
the general consensus is he should take legal actions
who should see about this?, HR acting this way seems little point in appealing to them.
Sound like he has had a rough time.
We have nowhere near enough info to pass any comment though.
Presumably if HR are involved it is unplanned and unauthorised absence? Without know the size of organisation, role, reasons for not turning in, regularity, previous communications it is impossible to say.
Would I like to think I would cut someone some slack at work under his circumstances? Yes.
Could I hold certain roles open and have a member of staff on full pay who regularly doesn't turn up? no
We have nowhere near enough info to pass any comment though.
Presumably if HR are involved it is unplanned and unauthorised absence? Without know the size of organisation, role, reasons for not turning in, regularity, previous communications it is impossible to say.
Would I like to think I would cut someone some slack at work under his circumstances? Yes.
Could I hold certain roles open and have a member of staff on full pay who regularly doesn't turn up? no
I've had a very similar situation.
I had an employee who started taking unauthorised absences, no notice, no contact. On investigation he explained that his wife had cancer. I said to him that I fully understood. He could take all the time he needed, just stay in touch so I knew when he was & was not going to be in. Shortly after he disappeared again. When he came back we had another talk explained the situation again. Few weeks later same thing again. This went on for 6 months. In the end I had little choice but to release him. Sad to say his wife died about a week after I'd released him. It's not where I would want to find myself ever again.
I had an employee who started taking unauthorised absences, no notice, no contact. On investigation he explained that his wife had cancer. I said to him that I fully understood. He could take all the time he needed, just stay in touch so I knew when he was & was not going to be in. Shortly after he disappeared again. When he came back we had another talk explained the situation again. Few weeks later same thing again. This went on for 6 months. In the end I had little choice but to release him. Sad to say his wife died about a week after I'd released him. It's not where I would want to find myself ever again.
Need more info on how he has conducted himself through this year.
If he hasn't communicated properly and not had his leave approved by his line manager, then it's sad to say but HR are acting in the remit, no matter how immoral and unfair it may come acrosss.
Everyone should be entitled to compassionate leave, but it has to be requested and approved properly.
If he hasn't communicated properly and not had his leave approved by his line manager, then it's sad to say but HR are acting in the remit, no matter how immoral and unfair it may come acrosss.
Everyone should be entitled to compassionate leave, but it has to be requested and approved properly.
GT03ROB said:
I've had a very similar situation.
I had an employee who started taking unauthorised absences, no notice, no contact. On investigation he explained that his wife had cancer. I said to him that I fully understood. He could take all the time he needed, just stay in touch so I knew when he was & was not going to be in. Shortly after he disappeared again. When he came back we had another talk explained the situation again. Few weeks later same thing again. This went on for 6 months. In the end I had little choice but to release him. Sad to say his wife died about a week after I'd released him. It's not where I would want to find myself ever again.
Its horrible isn't it? As terrible as the company in the OP can be made to sound, having such a tragic year is not their fault and they do need to continue to run their business. We don't know any of the ins and outs of the above story and I would be surprised if whatever made them take the decision to issue the warning didn't also make them double check their rights. Although it cant hurt to get advice, embarking on legal action is not going to make him feel any better at all so it is completely pointless and will add a great deal of stress.I had an employee who started taking unauthorised absences, no notice, no contact. On investigation he explained that his wife had cancer. I said to him that I fully understood. He could take all the time he needed, just stay in touch so I knew when he was & was not going to be in. Shortly after he disappeared again. When he came back we had another talk explained the situation again. Few weeks later same thing again. This went on for 6 months. In the end I had little choice but to release him. Sad to say his wife died about a week after I'd released him. It's not where I would want to find myself ever again.
cirian75 said:
will try to get more info
our HR dept does not have a good record for being sensible and obeying employment laws though.
They sacked one guy 3 times, he's still here.
Honestly, my advice above is what he should do. I know this is PH and giving crap advice is what we do but Acas exist to offer free support in scenarios exactly like this.our HR dept does not have a good record for being sensible and obeying employment laws though.
They sacked one guy 3 times, he's still here.
I'll even give you...
The phone number: 0300 123 1100
And the wesbite: http://www.acas.org.uk/helpline
ManFromDelmonte said:
cirian75 said:
will try to get more info
our HR dept does not have a good record for being sensible and obeying employment laws though.
They sacked one guy 3 times, he's still here.
Honestly, my advice above is what he should do. I know this is PH and giving crap advice is what we do but Acas exist to offer free support in scenarios exactly like this.our HR dept does not have a good record for being sensible and obeying employment laws though.
They sacked one guy 3 times, he's still here.
I'll even give you...
The phone number: 0300 123 1100
And the wesbite: http://www.acas.org.uk/helpline
cirian75 said:
will print that last part and ask him to call them.
Harsh as it sounds though, there is little point if he simply hasn't been turning in or arriving on time without a doctors note or prior arrangement of compassionate leave.If he has been spoke to previously and continued, I don't see what he can do,or what legal action would achieve.
talkssense said:
cirian75 said:
will print that last part and ask him to call them.
Harsh as it sounds though, there is little point if he simply hasn't been turning in or arriving on time without a doctors note or prior arrangement of compassionate leave.If he has been spoke to previously and continued, I don't see what he can do,or what legal action would achieve.
That's true.
But even if, armed with the facts, ACAS tell him he has a possible case for constructive dismissal - so what?
Like he needs more stress, angst and misery right now which is exactly what exploring the legal route will gain him and the best he can hope for is a bit of money at the end of it.
It's just not worth it.
But even if, armed with the facts, ACAS tell him he has a possible case for constructive dismissal - so what?
Like he needs more stress, angst and misery right now which is exactly what exploring the legal route will gain him and the best he can hope for is a bit of money at the end of it.
It's just not worth it.
From my experience in a similarish situation (went on one unauthorised absence after employer denied leave in order to be assessed and arrange rehabilitation following a broken humerus), acas only suggested filing a written grievance with my employer.
Given that the grievance procedure would have gone through the same managers who saw fit to refuse the above leave / refuse alternative arrangements and then call it gross misconduct with a final written warning I chose not to bother - if they could come up with the wrong answer to something as obvious as 'should I allow an employee time off in order to avoid permanent disability', there was no way they were going to come up with the right answer if I'd filed a grievance.
Given that the grievance procedure would have gone through the same managers who saw fit to refuse the above leave / refuse alternative arrangements and then call it gross misconduct with a final written warning I chose not to bother - if they could come up with the wrong answer to something as obvious as 'should I allow an employee time off in order to avoid permanent disability', there was no way they were going to come up with the right answer if I'd filed a grievance.
shouldbworking said:
From my experience in a similarish situation (went on one unauthorised absence after employer denied leave in order to be assessed and arrange rehabilitation following a broken humerus), acas only suggested filing a written grievance with my employer.
Given that the grievance procedure would have gone through the same managers who saw fit to refuse the above leave / refuse alternative arrangements and then call it gross misconduct with a final written warning I chose not to bother - if they could come up with the wrong answer to something as obvious as 'should I allow an employee time off in order to avoid permanent disability', there was no way they were going to come up with the right answer if I'd filed a grievance.
If the greivance goes to a manager directky invilved in the case then you have further grounds.Given that the grievance procedure would have gone through the same managers who saw fit to refuse the above leave / refuse alternative arrangements and then call it gross misconduct with a final written warning I chose not to bother - if they could come up with the wrong answer to something as obvious as 'should I allow an employee time off in order to avoid permanent disability', there was no way they were going to come up with the right answer if I'd filed a grievance.
There was a problem in a particular organisation where very senior managers would instruct others to suspend people over issues that prima facie involved the very senior manager but because someone else had on paper instituted the discip the VSM could be the investigator despite the obvious conflict of interest. Said organisation now has a oolicy which requires the involvement of the regional HR manager and approval of a director before any suspension or discip can go forward ( all a lesser manager can do is stand people down off shift )...
liner33 said:
When I worked in Local Authority one of my collegues had a mastectomy and after returning to work they insisted that she use her annual leave to attend any follow up appointments !
Another of the 'perks' of the public sector.Though of course the endless baseless TPA / kipper / powefully built begoateed company director whinging would have that done as a lie because she had 3 years off at full pay and was chauffeured everywhere during that time...
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