Project Management & Prince2

Author
Discussion

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,017 posts

197 months

Monday 3rd November 2014
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I've been contemplating for a long while as to what my next step professionally would be. To be honest, I'm steering away from IT Support and really considering getting into PM in the back of my mind.

I've been in 1st/2nd line IT Support for almost a decade and while I love the technical aspects of the job alongside talking to people about what they need, I can't help feel that I'm losing my love for it slowly. Lately I've been wanting to get involved with the business side of IT and actually working with seniors to roll out and see through Projects. It's something that's been on my mind for over a year now.

How would one go about getting into PM with no management experience? I'm seriously considering doing my P2 and find the role and course in itself quite intriguing. I realise that I can't just walk into a role after completing a P2 exam so some advice would be welcome from the PH masses as I know there's a fair few of you on here.

AndyTR

516 posts

123 months

Tuesday 4th November 2014
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P2 is a good course and it's nice to have the badge. I'd have a look at CAPM though as this is the course I'm sending my junior PMs on as you can then progress to PMP and beyond. P2 is ok and has served me well, but it's very general in terms of a method and I've found the PMI collateral to be more applicable to IT focused roles.

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,017 posts

197 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
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Others may come at a later date, but to get my foot in the door without a degree I'd imagine the Foundation & Practitioner course is best?

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
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Foundation and Practitioner courses are fine.

If you look at companies like http://www.theknowledgeacademy.com - you will see that any unsold seats they have on a course - the price drops on the Friday before the Monday start to a very low level.

So you can do this very cost effectively.



Edit - Just sent you a PM fella.


Edit - Correct website name entered.


Edited by Troubleatmill on Monday 24th November 22:54

marctwo

3,666 posts

259 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
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I'm in the same boat and just did my PRINCE2 foundation and have the practitioner later this month. To be honest, I am not sure how useful it will be. As said, it was very general and really only covers the outline of what needs to be done, nothing on how to do it.

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
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marctwo said:
I'm in the same boat and just did my PRINCE2 foundation and have the practitioner later this month. To be honest, I am not sure how useful it will be. As said, it was very general and really only covers the outline of what needs to be done, nothing on how to do it.
That's why you need PMP. It isn't just a theoretical model - it is also the "How to..."

If you don't have the experience to apply for PMP - look at CAPM.

www.rmcproject.com is a highly recommended resource for passing PMP and CAPM
But even just reading the RMCProject PMP book will help you a lot.
http://www.rmcproject.com/product/pmp-prep.aspx

Sidewindow

300 posts

222 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
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This is pretty timely for me as i'm also looking at various qualifications for a move into project management. I've just completed the APMIC (APM Fundamentals) exam which seemed like a good broad entry level qualification (albeit relatively basic). The next obvious step is Prince2 Foundation and Practitioner, as amongst other things it appears to be good for bolstering the CV. I guess the battle then, as the OP suggests, is how to gain direct experience of working in a PM team without having that experience in the first place to secure a position...

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,017 posts

197 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
Foundation and Practitioner courses are fine.

If you look at companies like www.knowledgeacademy.com - you will see that any unsold seats they have on a course - the price drops on the Friday before the Monday start to a very low level.

So you can do this very cost effectively.



Edit - Just sent you a PM fella.
Thank you very much for the information.

The Knowledge Academy is who I would have done it through anyway. I did my ITIL Foundation via them too.

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,017 posts

197 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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Troubleatmill: seriously, thank you for the follow up email on guidance. Gives me a good idea of how to tackle the learning.

Also, eye lyk pichers. biggrin

Bigbox

589 posts

210 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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Troubleatmill said:
Foundation and Practitioner courses are fine.

If you look at companies like www.knowledgeacademy.com - you will see that any unsold seats they have on a course - the price drops on the Friday before the Monday start to a very low level.

So you can do this very cost effectively.



Edit - Just sent you a PM fella.


Edited by Troubleatmill on Wednesday 5th November 11:05
Not sure that's a valid link as takes to a holding page...?

I've been contracting (not in IT) for a while and am looking at broadening my skillset, especially with regards to Prince2

Is it worthwhile as something to have on your CV - i've managed lots of succesful projects, just not in a formal manner

Any pointers?

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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Certificates are fine, and these days are an easy filter on large volumes of cv's, but nothing beats experience.

If you're a permanent member of staff at a decent company, start looking for ways of getting more deeply involved in project type work. Even if not as the PM. If you're a contractor, this is going to be more difficult. Not impossible, but tricky (it's one of the downsides of contracting).

Working in support is a fantastic way to get a technical and softer skills grounding across the board and will give you great insight into what projects need to focus on if used properly.

In my experience, moving from there into the more "back room" tech areas (design and technical deployment) will be the best route into the PM world. So don't necessarily look for a direct move, consider additional "hops" to improve your breadth of experience and make you more saleable as a PM.

Podie

46,630 posts

274 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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P2 has become a standard. Recruiters want to see it, companies think they want it. In reality, neither know what it really is hehe and by their own admission if you follow P2 to the letter your project will fail.

If you're coming from IT support I'd look at getting ITIL v3 accredited. Understand that, get P2 Practitioner (foundation merely qualifies you to tie your shoe laces) and see what's available internally.

Ideally, with a support background you might want to concentrate on Infrastructure roles as you may find it helps to manage things you understand.

However, qualifications do not make a good project manager. Some of the best PMs I've worked with are self taught, and the worst have every certificate under the sun.

griffgrog

705 posts

245 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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I recruit IT professionals all the time for an IT consultancy firm.

The first thing I would say is that qualifications are - in this context - massively over emphasised. All my questions will be about your experience.

You need to start gaining experience. This is much easier at a company you are already working for. Get involved in projects. Volunteer for weekend work during IT refresh projects. Use your current environment to get to know how projects should be run.

By all means learn PRINCE2, but be prepared to be challenged. If I get a candidate with PRINCE2 and ITIL qualifications in front of me and they make a point of emphasising them - I question them about their experience and understanding of the methodologies very hard.

I would put my hands up at being somewhat of a guru in these methodologies, and if someone said they were too, I'd want to test them out! It's a bake off at this point.

Its far, far better to emphasise your actual practical experience. After all, it's difficult to challenge!

If in property the moto is location, location, location - then in this context it's experience, experience, experience.

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,017 posts

197 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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I'm wondering if anyone can give me a little motivation with regards to getting into a PM type role after successfully completing their P2. Has anyone gone from a technical support role into a P2 role? If not, then what steps need to be taken to get there? At present there are zero options available to myself in my current role for taking on some responsibility relating to this.

XJSJohn

15,959 posts

218 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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As a Project and Program Manager for the last 15+ years, and someone who did his Prince2 Tickets last century paperbag they have stood me in good standing over my career, but internationally i am seeing that PMI / PMBOK is much wider recognised.

They are a pain as you have to keep maintaining your PDU's but if you are actively in Project Management this should not be so difficult.

Rgds,

XJSJohn, Prince2, PMI, ITIL, MCP, LDRPS, BSC, DIC

[small]see who remembers the "Only Fools and Horses" referance [/snall]


Edit - Motivation - my PM career has allowed me to live and work all over the world, current home is Bangkok, have done Singapore, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Munich and Oslo as well!!! Fantastic experiences and memories!!

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,017 posts

197 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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Thank you for the input John. I will look into some providers of the course but feel I may need to watch some YouTube videos or do further reading beforehand. No idea how long that could take.

MadDad

3,834 posts

260 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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I have been a PM for circa 12 years now, I certified as P2 after about 4 years of PM-ing - I have to admit that my formal qualification has lapsed and it is something that I should re-certify! Real world experience will always trump certifications, however when applying for roles having P2 on your CV will help you through the filtering process.

Getting your P2 and ITIL tickets will never be a bad thing, but in both cases they are like a driving license without experience of driving a car. Also, trying to deliver a project following rigid Prince2 is almost impossible unless everyone in your project supply chain and stakeholder groups understand and follow the methodology. More often than not companies talk the talk but very few I have worked with (including govn't orgs), actually delivery projects following anything that resembles a P2 environment! In fact I would go as far as saying a large majority of companies deliver projects, they don't manage them!

If you are dead set on becoming a PM then a route in would be as a junior PM, or taking a role in a PMO where you can gain a good understanding of project dynamics before shouldering a project solo. It is also a good way of deciding if PM-ing is something you really want to do.

One thing I would question is why you would want to be a PM? Your initial posting makes me think you might be better suited to moving into a business analyst or solution architect type role.

A BA/SA works with 'the business' to address problems, issues and aspirations through technology, they usually 'own' the solutions technical integrity throughout the project and will ensure that the finished product meets the initial business case (in conjunction with the PM). I have worked with some outstanding SA's who strike the balance between being a technologist and understanding a businesses short term issues or long term aspirations, speaking as a PM a decent SA can make or break a project.

The PM's role is more of a shi7 buffer/task monkey! We work hand in glove with the business and project team(s), and are responsible for the end to end delivery of a project ensuring it meets the agreed time, quality and cost criteria (and manage variations to this during the project lifecycle). The 'intelligence' behind most projects lies with the business analyst or solutions architect who are responsible for the solution fulfilling the needs of the business case!

Food for thought before you part with any hard earned cash on certifications that may not take you in the right direction!!!! smile

Edited by MadDad on Monday 24th November 18:58

marctwo

3,666 posts

259 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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I just finished my P2 Practitioner and it was quite a bit harder than foundation. Now I need to start looking at something like PMP and getting some practical experience.

NorthDave

2,355 posts

231 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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TotalControl said:
I'm wondering if anyone can give me a little motivation with regards to getting into a PM type role after successfully completing their P2. Has anyone gone from a technical support role into a P2 role? If not, then what steps need to be taken to get there? At present there are zero options available to myself in my current role for taking on some responsibility relating to this.
I did it years ago - support to PM. I hated it. I liked the fixing things and interaction with people when I was in support and being the best technically I could be. PM work just felt like admin to me. There was also this big thing about budgets, the bigger the budget the more responsibility and prestige. I still found these projects to be admin!

If I had my time again I would just push my technical knowledge in to a different, more specialised field.

Sidewindow

300 posts

222 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Can anyone working in the PM field kindly suggest the best way to get into that first project role? I have some PM qualifications (APMIC and PRINCE2 hopefully this week), but as stated above, from an employer's perspective these are useless without the experience to back them up. Most junior project roles that I have come across state the need for experience (e.g. 'must have worked in a PMO environment for a minimum of 2 years', 'demonstrable experience of working on at least 2 significant projects'), which is all well and good, but how can this experience be gained in the first place?

From a personal perspective, I have worked for major banks and have run my own business, but haven't specifically worked in a project environment which is what employers are looking for. I am willing to reduce my salary expectations to gain experience of working in a project environment but feel that at 32 I am automatically filtered away from junior roles - perhaps losing out to fresh faced graduates!

Apologies for the thread hijack but hopefully it's a useful one for the OP.

SW